Oh Isn't It Wonderful - Elton John And His Husband

[Jaime]

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1294016798' post='2196021']
I'd re-read the thread before you declare such.


[/quote]

No need I read fine the first time. You can't show me one person who has a miltant, mod or scholar tag defending anything Elton John has done.

[StMichael]

Is that with their hair parted to the right or left?

Because I think the ones who have it parted down the center might have.

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1294022748' post='2196045']
No need I read fine the first time. You can't show me one person who has a miltant, mod or scholar tag defending anything Elton John has done.
[/quote]

[Jaime]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1294016921' post='2196023']
that's not fair.

if someone focused on the abortion topic too much, would you call them out? some people feel passionate about different societal issues, no reason to say something is wrong with that.
[/quote]

Absolutely and in fact I did that numerous times when I was running a pro-life counseling center. I had more than one volunteer who was only concerned with the evils of abortion that they had no time to care for the babies that we were saving. (or the mothers for that matter) I told them that there was a difference between being pro-life and just anti abortion.

If someone is obsessed with hating the sin and does nothing to promote the positive virtues that the sin detracts from, they aren't helping.

[StMichael]

Why are we not staying on focus with the actual sin and sins as opposed to who is or not obsessed, etc.

Maybe this particular sin needs a little more focus than it is given, because we are probably closer to the redefinition of marriage than we ever have been.

And the message was spot on, what is the issue around here with constantly going after the author of the message? Attack the opinion, if you feel the need to, not the person. This will lead to a far better debate.


[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1294023349' post='2196048']
Absolutely and in fact I did that numerous times when I was running a pro-life counseling center. I had more than one volunteer who was only concerned with the evils of abortion that they had no time to care for the babies that we were saving. (or the mothers for that matter) I told them that there was a difference between being pro-life and just anti abortion.

If someone is obsessed with hating the sin and does nothing to promote the positive virtues that the sin detracts from, they aren't helping.
[/quote]

[Jaime]

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1294024081' post='2196050']
Why are we not staying on focus with the actual sin and sins as opposed to who is or not obsessed, etc.

Maybe this particular sin needs a little more focus than it is given, because we are probably closer to the redefinition of marriage than we ever have been.

And the message was spot on, what is the issue around here with constantly going after the author of the message? Attack the opinion, if you feel the need to, not the person. This will lead to a far better debate.



[/quote]
Because when some folks say that Catholics are defending Elton John and there aren't any around that have done so, it needs to be pointed out.

[Jesus_lol]

The catholics arent specifically defending Elton Johns actions, but some are defending against the more vile and baseless accusations other posters are making. there is a difference between the two.

[MithLuin]

There are a lot of things wrong with this situation.

Surrogacy and IVF in general separate the conception of a child from the conjugal act. They are literally 'making' babies, rather than procreation happening. That is...not a good thing.

Elton John is an old man. God gives babies to the young (as someone I know likes to put it). While I imagine his finances are fine (they weren't a bit ago; an accountant bankrupted him 10-15 years ago), raising a child takes a lot of energy. Being absentee (or dead) does make things difficult on the child.

And yes, his gay partnership (or whatever people are calling it) is not a moral situation. Like divorce and remarriage, it's completely against God's plans for the family.

People can do whatever they want, and they don't have to answer to [i]me[/i] at the end of the day. But we are all answerable. I am very, very thankful that my parents were not public figures or celebrities.

[CatherineM]

I also have problems with his age. I don't think people should be having children unnaturally past normal child bearing years. There are lots of issues with the kids. Just as one example, fathers over the age of 50 triples the rates of schizophrenia or autism in their children.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1294031604' post='2196081']
I also have problems with his age. I don't think people should be having children unnaturally past normal child bearing years. There are lots of issues with the kids. Just as one example, fathers over the age of 50 triples the rates of schizophrenia or autism in their children.
[/quote]

At 63 years old Mr John was refused to be allowed to adopt a Ukrainian boy named Lev by the government on the grounds that he is gay and at 63 years old, he was too old to become a parent. There is some sanity in the world afterall! The baby's grandmother said that after the refusal Mr John had promised to help find him an adoptive family and provide ongoing financial support for the boy but as yet has not done so. She thinks he may have just used this as a publicity stunt to make it seem like he was a caring person, who would think that of such a talented homosexual person?
Here is a link to the full story, including a creepy picture of the old geezer smooching the little boy.
[url="http://movies.ndtv.com/movie_story.aspx?Section=Movies&ID=ENTEN20110165291&subcatg=MOVIESINDIA&keyword=music&nid=76593"]Link to story. [/url]

ed

[Archaeology cat]

All other issues aside, I have a problem with the fact that the baby is being put up in a [url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1343395/Elton-Johns-new-baby-door-1-3m-luxury-flat.html#ixzz19tZZ6iKR"]separate apartment with 2 nannies[/url]. I'm sorry, but that's not parenting. Being a parent means being responsible for your child, and being there for the good and bad. You get some great snuggles and play times, but you also get the sickness and the dirty nappies and being spit-up on. More than that, a child doesn't care about having a really well-designed apartment, but about being loved and spending time with parents. I could make sure my children had everything in the world, but my son will often just say "I want Mummy".

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294025887' post='2196058']
The catholics arent specifically defending Elton Johns actions, but some are defending against the more vile and baseless accusations other posters are making. there is a difference between the two.
[/quote]
Exactly, personally I don't like the look of the man, but that may be my problem since I know nothing about him. A person being born with an attraction to the same sex is not sinful since it was not their choice. I've heard there are spiritual people who hate themselves and feel that they are condemned by God because of their unnatural attraction. Not true! God hates the sin, but still loves the sinner and wants the sinner to reform. The only thing that appears to be established in this case is the sin of surrogacy, most probably they engage in unnatural sex which is also a sin. I've never denied that they are sinners and I am not supporting them. It's all the other condemnation, which may or may not be true that is wrong and what I take exception to. What's happening here is people are seeing sin A and adding B,C,D, and anything they can think of to condemn rather than concentrate on what is missing because of sin A as per this

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1294023349' post='2196048']
Absolutely and in fact I did that numerous times when I was running a pro-life counseling center. I had more than one volunteer who was only concerned with the evils of abortion that they had no time to care for the babies that we were saving. (or the mothers for that matter) I told them that there was a difference between being pro-life and just anti abortion.

If someone is obsessed with hating the sin and does nothing to promote the positive virtues that the sin detracts from, they aren't helping.
[/quote]
It is our duty to promote reformation not condemnation.

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294014121' post='2196010']
I've been warned and suspended for less, though i doubt you will have to worry about that.
[/quote]

It's interesting that isn't it? A while ago 'Dust' requested people to conduct themselves in accordance with the CC or relinquish titles, yet some regular people here are downright rude, vulgar, write distorted and/or senseless posts and are continually edited for them, yet still have tags that infer that they represent the Pope.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Mark of the Cross

[Winchester]

Cue the waterworks.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294025887' post='2196058']
The catholics arent specifically defending Elton Johns actions, but some are defending against the more vile and baseless accusations other posters are making. there is a difference between the two.
[/quote]


Like we don't know if they are having gaysx or promoting the gay lifestyle and trying to change societal norms. Thank you for admitting that this is vile. Did I spell nice for you.

Edited January 3, 2011 by thessalonian

[rachael]

.

Edited January 3, 2011 by rachael

[thessalonian]

[quote name='rachael' timestamp='1294071239' post='2196163']
.
[/quote]

Say what you feel rach.