Semper Catholic Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1293556281' post='2194779'] I don't think that is the case in this situation, though. You have a guy who's been stringing her along for two years...HINTS at a wedding ring for Christmas and then gives her a lousy $20.00 gift card. Now, is that the way you treat the lady you love??? "Relationships are about the journey not the destination..." ---not quite sure what that means in this situation, especially if one is courting, then obviously, the "destination" is marriage.... [/quote] Being with someone and with them and falling in love with them is the journey. relationships aren't about getting married. They're about loving someone and caring for another person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 [quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1293555515' post='2194777'] If there's one thing I know, ultimatums and forced proposals are great starts towards a happy married life! Relationships are abut the journey not the destination. Also I'd be worried about a girl who cries over such a little thing like that. I doubt she is truly ready for marriage if that's true. [/quote] Crying over that is not abnormal for a girl. While I'm not a fan of deadlines, it is good to be on the same page about the relationship. I have a friend who has been wanting a ring from her ~6-year bf for the past year and a half. He told her that he wants to marry her, but doesn't want to "officially" propose until they are stable and in the same city. She views the ring as a sign of relationship stability while they are figuring out the job location issues. He didn't realize what a big deal it was to her until she set an ultimatum - and now they are more stable and more happy. She's still waiting on the ring, but feels better about his level of commitment. Take Home Message: Every situation is different. If she's crying that much, she needs to talk to him about it. Either he has no idea or he doesn't care. Both problems have obvious (not necessarily easy) solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regina_coeli Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Ultimatums seem cold, BUT after two years each should have an idea of where this is going. Friend might consider telling BF that either he loves her enough to marry her, and they set a date, begin pre Cana, etc OR she will break it off and find someone who does love her that way. An engagement ring is not a necessity-- if money is an issue a plain wedding band is a beautiful thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 First Boys are stupid Secondly, the ultimatum doesn't have to be about him. Sure some might suggest "If you don't give me a ring by XXXX then I'm gone" and that would make it about him. However you can do the same thing by making the deadline about her. "If I'm in a relationship for x amount of years, I need to be engaged or move on" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Wow. "But I love him" can only go so far before it's used as an excuse for very bad, "red-flag" behavior. Don't give him a deadline. Two YEARS and he's acting like this? I could see if it were a few months' type relationship and he was just a little nervous but I honestly think that's ridiculous if they've been together that long. From what you've described I think there are definitely some "red flag" behaviors and I'm sure if you dug deeper you'd find a heck of a lot more. At the very least this guy has got a lot of growing up to do. Your friend would be much better off finding someone worthy of her -- in my opinion, NOT him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 [quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1293556711' post='2194781'] relationships aren't about getting married. They're about loving someone and caring for another person. [/quote] A man and woman who are romantically involved who have no intention of getting married have no business being together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsSlappo Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 I hijacked my wife's account for this post. 2 things: 1st: a ring is important, be it a diamond ring or a $20 ring. An engagement ring shows commitment, regardless of price. It is a sign of what is to come, and as Catholics we are very sign oriented. At a wedding, the wedding band is put on the finger as the husband says "Take this ring as a sign of my love and fidelity in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen." An engagement ring is also a sign of love and fidelity, but not yet bonded through the sacrament of matrimony. My wife and I often remind each other of this. When she leaves her ring somewhere (takes it off for dishes/a shower) and I find it, I place it on her finger and renew the symbol of the ring reminding her it is a sign of my love and fidelity, and she does likewise. The wedding ring is blessed and is a sacramental or a sign of what is present, the engagement ring is a sign of what is to come. 2nd: A LOT of us view two years as an extremely long time, but it is not universal. In Italy, dating eight years is common. In Wisconsin, dating 4+ years is common. My wife's cousin was married a month after us on their 8 year anniversary. They were not living together or engaging in pre-marital activities either. I could not wait 8 years, no way jose. My wife and I were engaged 9 months after dating and married 21 months after dating. Almost everyone in her area viewed that as wayyyy too fast, but at the same time there are people on PM that were married 9 months after dating or even faster. I wouldn't tell her to give up on the relationship, but it really needs to be re-evaulated and they need to openly talk about her concerns. He needs to let her know exactly where he is. If he is not yet sure that they should be married, she needs to know that. If it is a matter of finances for a ring or for marriage, then it needs to be discussed openly. They should also look into betrothal ceremonies after engagement (it is really cool and I believe there are posts on PM about betrothal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 [quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1293569594' post='2194815'] A man and woman who are romantically involved who have no intention of getting married have no business being together. [/quote] Right, but realtionships still aren't about getting married. If you aren't in love with someone completely and forever you should not be forcing marriage with them. Marriage is not a stepping stone or something that becomes necessary after a period of time. Oh we've been together 5 years? Guess we have to get married! That's not how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 If two people have been together five years in a chaste relationship, they should probably either consider marriage or Josephite marriage. Unless there are serious financial issues or something. Not doing so would be like attending Mass, not being in a state of mortal sin, and not partaking in the Eucharist. You're already there and good, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Micah' timestamp='1293580315' post='2194841'] If two people have been together five years in a chaste relationship, they should probably either consider marriage or Josephite marriage. Unless there are serious financial issues or something. Not doing so would be like attending Mass, not being in a state of mortal sin, and not partaking in the Eucharist. You're already there and good, why not? [/quote] I dunno, I think it depends on the couple. My two best friends have been in a chaste relationship for 5 1/2 years. My friends don't live together, aren't in financial hardship, but I know they want to get engaged. They both graduated from college about a year ago and want to get better jobs than they have before they anything moves along. The two of them just are not in any rush, but I know it will happen for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1293575862' post='2194826'] If you aren't in love with someone completely and forever you should not be forcing marriage with them.[/quote] Nor should you be dating them for 5 years. [quote]Marriage is not a stepping stone or something that becomes necessary after a period of time.[/quote] Dating is for the purpose of finding out whether someone is a suitable mate. If you aren't dating for that main reason, you're dating for the [i]wrong[/i] reason. If it takes both parties 5 years to figure out if the other person is right for them, there's most likely a problem. Often, that problem is a lack of understanding about the purpose of dating. ~Sternhauser Edited December 29, 2010 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1293588959' post='2194851'] Nor should you be dating them for 5 years. Dating is for the purpose of finding out whether someone is a suitable mate. If you aren't dating for that main reason, you're dating for the [i]wrong[/i] reason. ~Sternhauser [/quote] And if you don't want kids? Love is not about reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1293589054' post='2194852'] And if you don't want kids? Love is not about reproduction. [/quote] If you don't want kids, and you are of a fertile age, you shouldn't get married. It is one of the ends of marriage. And if you aren't getting married, you shouldn't be dating. You [i]certainly[/i] shouldn't have sex if you aren't married. Lastly, intercourse must always be [i]open[/i] to reproduction. ~Sternhauser Edited December 29, 2010 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1293553629' post='2194772'] This. [/quote] this. The guy is NOT ready and no ultimatum will make him ready. Forget the leading on about a possible proposal... forget about "when should I take my vacation days?" converstation... Those are just him hemming and hawing... Here's what's problematic--- Guy knows he's in a "serious" relationship (ie talking marriage) and yet they have not discussed their finances/debts? But worse than that (though that is huge, imho)... They've been dating for years and he does not invite her to be involved with family holiday events? Especially when it doesn't conflict with her family gathering? This is a huge red flag for me. He likes being her boyfriend in private, but not around grandma? What's up with that? He's not that into her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 [quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1293589761' post='2194856'] this. The guy is NOT ready and no ultimatum will make him ready. Forget the leading on about a possible proposal... forget about "when should I take my vacation days?" converstation... Those are just him hemming and hawing... Here's what's problematic--- Guy knows he's in a "serious" relationship (ie talking marriage) and yet they have not discussed their finances/debts? But worse than that (though that is huge, imho)... They've been dating for years and he does not invite her to be involved with family holiday events? Especially when it doesn't conflict with her family gathering? This is a huge red flag for me. He likes being her boyfriend in private, but not around grandma? What's up with that? He's not that into her. [/quote] Agreed. He's just stringing her along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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