Demonic Possession

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295742722' post='2203207']
I imprison every demon I fight in hell, and there is a limited number of them. I haven't read through all of the book of Enoch, but I do know that all demonic spirits are the spirits of the Nephilim, and there is only a limited number of them.
[/quote]

I find this hilarious. Like a kid with a wooden sword, telling me of all the dragons he personally slayed today.

so what does a fight with a demon look like? do you sit in crowded rooms and appear to be staring intensely at something behind your yoghurt, mumbling?


so do you know how many demons are left to cast back to hell? does the Vatican give you a bounty on every set of horns or pointed tail you bring them?

Edited January 23, 2011 by Jesus_lol

[Ed Normile]

So far MKS has likened himself to the prophets by his casting demons into hell, at least everyone that he has fought. What a stud! A dose of humility would make him the perfect human male.

ed

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1295765084' post='2203316']
I do not recall hearing of any saints who were possessed, but I know many were tortured by demons. Padre Pio was said to have been physically beat by demons jealous of his devotion to his faith and trying to shake it. I think an actual possession would occur when one submitted to the influence and allowed the demon to enter his body to replace the grace within, this could either be done willingly like for some perceived gain or a loss of strenght of will to deny its power over you.

St Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil, and do thou O Prince of the Heavenly Host by the power of God, cast into hell satan and all evil spirits who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen

ed
[/quote]

While there is no doubt that it is infinitely more likely that a callous sinner becomes possessed through his own fault, Fr. Gabriele Amorth, Rome's chief exorcist, says that even a saint can become possessed, and through no fault of his own.

~Sternhauser

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295766025' post='2203324']
While there is no doubt that it is infinitely more likely that a callous sinner becomes possessed through his own fault, Fr. Gabriele Amorth, Rome's chief exorcist, says that even a saint can become possessed, and through no fault of his own.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


Did Fr. Amorth say there has been a saint who was possessed or just that this could happen? I feel that saints would be stable enough spiritually to resist the feircest of attacks by a demon, not the physical harm but the spiritual harm, that would be the charachter that would make them a saint, whereas a lukewarm soul, one with a tepid faith would be easier to overwhelm. I think a callous sinner could be possessed, but if you think about it what would a demon gain, they already own that soul.

St Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil, May God rebuke him we humbly pray! And do thou O Prince of the Heavenly Host by the power of God, cast into hell satan and all evil spirits who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen


ed

Edited January 23, 2011 by Ed Normile

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1295767276' post='2203342']
Did Fr. Amorth say there has been a saint who was possessed or just that this could happen? I feel that saints would be stable enough spiritually to resist the feircest of attacks by a demon, not the physical harm but the spiritual harm, that would be the charachter that would make them a saint, whereas a lukewarm soul, one with a tepid faith would be easier to overwhelm. I think a callous sinner could be possessed, but if you think about it what would a demon gain, they already own that soul.

St Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil, May God rebuke him we humbly pray! And do thou O Prince of the Heavenly Host by the power of God, cast into hell satan and all evil spirits who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen
ed
[/quote]

He said there had been.

~Sternhauser

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295760257' post='2203293']
Actually, this actually sums what what I think of demonic possession anyway.

I think Stern here, and Nihil - who say demons can take over people's body and [b][u]force them to do things is pretty crazy stuff[/u][/b] - I will never accept that theology ever (hence you can read my sarcastic remark to both of them at my response to Stern's comments).

We can give away our free will and use it to do Satan's work, but Satan can never use our bodies to do it by [u][b]forcing himself on us[/b][/u]. There has to be either a conscious (which happens with many spiritual Luciferians), or unconscious by some people deciding to do things the wrong way - [b][u]but to think one day Satan will ever take over our body because God gives him the right to take over your body against your will[/u][/b] - that never happens.

[/quote]

The whole "forcing" idea you have going on is invalid. You and I (and I'm guessing Stern and Nihil) agree that we allow Satan to influence us. A rare and powerful way is through possession, where he controls our [i]physical [/i]body. Our body is not what is important- our soul is. For him to influence us through our bodies (mere objects, or 'shells') is not forcing himself on our entire being.

I don't think any of us believe that God will give Satan the right to take our bodies and our souls. And if Satan did claim our soul, it is only because we allowed him to as I said in my original post. It seems like you're not quite understanding what we're all saying here. We don't believe that Satan can grab us as his own whenever he feels like it, without our permission. We don't believe that God encourages him to do that either. We do believe that he can influence us physically, through our bodies, if we allow him to- consciously or unconsciously. How do we know that? Scriptures and real-life experiences.

[Nihil Obstat]

Thank God every Catholic here can see Mark's 'theology' for what it is: the sad result of relying on one's own 'authority' to interpret Scripture. Don't fall into this trap.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1295737001' post='2203177']
I won't be going to see the movie. Anything relating to demonic possession scares the living poo out of me.

[/quote]

Me too! I see the possibility that taking an interest in that stuff, even if to watch fictional movies, is very much the same as playing with the occult. Better to leave it alone full stop!

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1295770944' post='2203370']
The whole "forcing" idea you have going on is invalid. You and I (and I'm guessing Stern and Nihil) agree that we allow Satan to influence us. A rare and powerful way is through possession, where he controls our [i]physical [/i]body. Our body is not what is important- our soul is. For him to influence us through our bodies (mere objects, or 'shells') is not forcing himself on our entire being.

I don't think any of us believe that God will give Satan the right to take our bodies and our souls. And if Satan did claim our soul, it is only because we allowed him to as I said in my original post. It seems like you're not quite understanding what we're all saying here. We don't believe that Satan can grab us as his own whenever he feels like it, without our permission. We don't believe that God encourages him to do that either. We do believe that he can influence us physically, through our bodies, if we allow him to- consciously or unconsciously. How do we know that? Scriptures and real-life experiences.
[/quote]

Audrey, I not the one who says demons can force people. Stern is.

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295762652' post='2203310']
Correct. There are two kinds of possession. Imperfect possession, and perfect possession. In perfect possession, the person has given over his will completely. In imperfect possession (these cases) the individual has not. [b]There are varying states during a simple possession, where the person is aware of what is happening, and states in which the person's body has been taken over, while the person's will is intact. [/b][/quote]

I vehemently disagree with the above statement that Stern just has said.

[b]I believe demonic possession is Satan influencing your mind,[/b] speaking lies to you, and the person acting on those thoughts - but they are still 100 per cent accountable for those actions. Stern is wrong when he says a demon can take over someone's body - which is what he has said.

So, while you are commenting on me - you did so incorrectly - you should have been saying that to Sternhauser, who I would like to see forbidden for having any guns, or any weapon that can do physical harm to someone. If he believes a demon can take over someone's body and cause them to do something than he is mentally unstable, period.

If Nihil has stated, well, I only believe a demon can influence a person - I would have gone - yes, you are correct. A person can certainly be influence, but a demon can not take over a person's body and force it to do things ever, and the person is totally accountable for his actions even if he did. You can not say - the devil made me do it ever without me thinking you're nuts, and you don't have a proper understanding of theology.

Edited January 23, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295796983' post='2203423']
Audrey, I not the one who says demons can force people. Stern is.[/quote]

I have stated at least four times that demons cannot force a person to do something against his will. They can only act through bodies, not through wills. But you keep making false accusations, Mark. Very un-Christlike. You are ignorant of true doctrine, and have created your own doctrines.

[quote][b]I believe demonic possession is Satan influencing your mind,[/b] speaking lies to you, and the person acting on those thoughts - but they are still 100 per cent accountable for those actions.[/quote]

No Mark, in many cases, that's simply called schizophrenia and/or multiple personality disorder, and it's not Satan talking to you, or telling you lies and asking you to do bad things: it's a mental illness that can lead to delusions of grandeur. In many cases, such influences are called "temptation," are rooted in one's own fallen nature, or in demonic influence. And everyone experiences temptation.

[quote] Stern is wrong when he says a demon can take over someone's body - which is what he has said.

So, while you are commenting on me - you did so incorrectly - you should have been saying that to Sternhauser, who I would like to see forbidden for having any guns, or any weapon that can do physical harm to someone. If he believes a demon can take over someone's body and cause them to do something than he is mentally unstable, period.[/quote]

And you have no authority for your belief, other than saying "I believe it because I believe it." No doctrinal authority (do you even believe in such a thing as a sound doctrine?)

A demon can seize bodily control. Do you think those pigs Jesus sent the demons into "wanted" to jump into the lake and drown? Did they listen to the "lies told to them by the demons," and act on them? You're calling God a liar by calling his scripture false. The demon caused the child's body to go into convulsions. Do you deny that fact?

[quote]You can not say - the devil made me do it ever without me thinking you're nuts, and you don't have a proper understanding of theology.
[/quote]

And again, you have no authority for your beliefs. (The devil can't [i]make[/i] anyone [i]do[/i] anything. It sometimes [i]can [/i]act through the body independent of the individual's will. That's the 5th or 6th time I've said that, yet you've igored it. It is clear that you are unable to make a distinction between the body and the soul.)

I've got 2000 years of Christ's true Church and the writings of his saints and servants on my side. You've got . . . nothing.

~Sternhauser

Edited January 23, 2011 by Sternhauser

[MithLuin]

There is the case of St. Gemma Galgani. She was certainly oppressed by demons for the final months of her life. Was she possessed? I don't know. I do know she requested an exorcism from her confessor on several occasions. So, is it possible? Probably. Was she actually possessed? I have no idea.

[url=http://www.stgemmagalgani.com/2010/09/attacks-by-demons-was-st-gemma-ever.html]St. Gemma[/url]

[b]Mark[/b], from what I know about spiritual warfare, total trust in God is essential...but overconfidence is deadly. It's not a good idea to think of yourself as impervious to attack.

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[size="3"][quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295798856' post='2203425']
I have stated at least four times that demons cannot force a person to do something against his will. They can only act through bodies, not through wills.[/quote]

See Audrey, he says that Satan is taking over your body - again.

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295798856' post='2203425']
No Mark, in many cases, that's simply called schizophrenia and/or multiple personality disorder, and it's not Satan talking to you, or telling you lies and asking you to do bad things: it's a mental illness that can lead to delusions of grandeur. In many cases, such influences are called "temptation," are rooted in one's own fallen nature, or in demonic influence. And everyone experiences temptation. [/quote]

I didn't say anything otherwise. Just like not all mammals are cows but all cows are mammals -Not all voices in your head is demonic possession, but all demonic possessions are voices in your head.

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295798856' post='2203425']
And you have no authority for your belief, other than saying "I believe it because I believe it." No doctrinal authority (do you even believe in such a thing as a sound doctrine?) [/quote]

I believe you are bat croutons crazy - and that just comes from all the insane posts you post up on this board.

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295798856' post='2203425']
A demon can seize bodily control. Do you think those pigs Jesus sent the demons into "wanted" to jump into the lake and drown? Did they listen to the "lies told to them by the demons," and act on them? You're calling God a liar by calling his scripture false. The demon caused the child to go into convulsions. Do you deny that fact? [/quote]

No, I am just questioning your intrepretation of those scriptures.

Considering Scripture says that

[quote] Luke 22:3

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.[/quote]

[quote]
20Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
21And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
22And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?
23And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
24The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.[/quote]

Jesus held Judas accountable for his actions -because Judas allowed Satan to influence his mind to betray him. The decisions was still up to Judas, and Satan - who had entered him, wasn't taking over his body.

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295798856' post='2203425']
Jesus said this about Judas But you keep making false accusations, Mark. Very un-Christlike. You are ignorant of true doctrine, and have created your own doctrines.[/quote]

Actually, I am concerned for all the people around you - because I believe you are a very dangerous man.

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295798856' post='2203425']
And again, you have no authority for your beliefs. (The devil doesn't make anyone do anything. He acts through the body independent of their will. It is clear that you are unable to make a distinction between the body and the soul. That's the 5th or 6th time I've said that, yet you've igored it.) [/quote]

Actually, the crux of the matter, which you do not realize, because you have no sense of reality, is that I do not believe Satan can take over your body - he may be able to influence - but not control - your spirit and soul, and cause pain in the body - like convulsions - but he can never take over your body - period, end of story. That is nutcase theology.

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295798856' post='2203425']
I've got 2000 years of Christ's true Church and the writings of his saints and servants on my side. You've got . . . nothing.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

Thanks for being the poster boy of why people should stay away from organized religion! If any random person saw what you just said - that Satan can take over your body like in Supernatural. . . they would think you are stark raving mad - and this comes because you are totally indoctrinated and brainwashed by your religion.

BTW, Supernatural is a cool TV show Stern, but it isn't reality. There really isn't a Sam and Dean Winchester who go out and kill demons with magic knives and guns that can kill anything.

I should create posters using what you just said, and sell it world wide!

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1295802028' post='2203430']
[b]Mark[/b], from what I know about spiritual warfare, total trust in God is essential...but overconfidence is deadly. It's not a good idea to think of yourself as impervious to attack.
[/quote]

Good advice, finally someone I can talk rationally with. For the past day and a half, I have felt like I was talking to some nutcases that really do believe Satan can force our bodies to do things against our will.

But I definitely don't feel impervious to attack. I've nearly had two minor strokes engaging the enemy, and there is nothing I could do but trust God to keep me alive through it, because there is nothing I can do to stop it.[/size]

Edited January 23, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann

[Nihil Obstat]

It's hard to argue with someone who is obsessively in love with his own incoherent system of thought.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1295807241' post='2203444']

It's hard to argue with someone who is obsessively in love with his own incoherent system of thought.
[/quote]

Is that some kind of euphemism for "idiot" ?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1295808121' post='2203451']
Is that some kind of euphemism for "idiot" ?
[/quote]
I guess it could be interpreted that way. I meant it more in the sense of a person who refuses to let go of his blatantly silly theology that he developed himself, simply because he developed it himself.