Anyone Have Any Pictures Of The Carmelite Nuns In Valparaiso Nebraska?

[emmaberry]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1346719886' post='2478086']
Okay, so at one point not long ago there was this video chat session of a young woman who had been in Valparaiso for four years and discerned out, [url="http://praythemass.org/2012/07/a-day-life-carmelite-nun/"]http://praythemass.o...-carmelite-nun/[/url]

I was soo meaning to start a topic on VS about this!!! However, they erased the video! It was super hard to load though .. I almost gave up (I didn't know about it when it was live) I just left the screen open and like 10-15 minutes later it started playing, but the audio was totally out of sync with the video. Anyway, that's why I think they erased it. However, it was a wonderful talk to listen to! And oh my goodness, she was so joyful talking about the community! I think that says a lot for someone who left. She said Mother Teresa said they still consider her as family and she writes them and visits.

So she addressed this issue of sleep, and said that yes, they have that one hour Siesta in the middle of the day. She also mentioned that living in silence throughout the day was very energizing actually and she didn't feel she needed as much sleep as being out in the world. She said that was one of the biggest things to adjust to coming out .. the lack of silence!

So anyway, I took some notes while listening to do, so I will post more later. But those "Pray the Mass" people told me they may do some shows with her in the future and use a better recording/video system, and they will let me know
[/quote]

Thank you! If the audio/video was so messed up, I doubt I would have persevered in watching it anyway. That's beautiful that they are still in touch after she left... I was recently reading through an old thread on those who have left the convent, and it was quite heart-renching the way most of them were treated when they decided/were ordered to leave. With the JMJ Carmel being so 'strict', I would have assumed that they treated those who left the same way the girls in that thread were treated. I am so glad that is not the case!

[maximillion]

As I believe I saw posted somewhere else, lack of sleep and constant fatigue were mentioned by the Little Flower, and in most communities where they still rise for the night office, are considered one of the ongoing penances of the life. So yes, some communities do have a very restricted amount of sleep, and what they do get is not unbroken...............

I think it is something to consider in discernment, and was one of the reasons I could never have lived that lifestyle. I can get by okay - ish on seven hours, but not on less.

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

I've been told that that one of the most important signs they look for in a postulant is if they are eating and sleeping well. Obviously both are very important in any community, but sleeping well is not to be confused with fatigue because I have found by experience and from other Sisters that this is a common cross to be carried in the religious life. When Matins came around it was difficult for everyone (you should have seen the novitiate process up the stairs after Matins, sometimes you couldn't help but giggle.) Its also how you choose to carry the crosses you have. Fatigue can feel very heavy, but so was His Cross. If it will be carried with acceptance, joy, and love it will actually cause a great peace within and become light to bear. If it be a cross He chooses for you, He will have His grace there with it.

I remember in one of the novitiate classes when the novice mistress was talking about trust and that having this childlike trust, everything you need will come to you. In this monastery you are not able to ask for anything directly, but simply state what the "problem" is and then the superior will tell you what to do. Say if you had a headache and were tired you couldn't ask if you can take medicine and get extra rest, but rather say "I have a headache and i'm tired" then you were told what to do, and most of the time you of course would get medicine and get extra rest, but doing it this was was an act of that trust and total abandonment to the providence of God. It reminded me of Our Blessed Mother at the wedding feast at Cana when they were out of wine, She went to Jesus and said, "they have no wine." She didn't say, "give them more wine, they don't have anymore." The way She had said this was so simple and a complete act of trust and surrender to whatever He was going to do.

"Come to Me, all you who labour and are burderend: and I will refresh you. Take up My yoke upon you and learn of Me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls. For My yoke is sweet and My burden light." Matthew 11:28,29,30.

[mantellata]

[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1346780659' post='2478319']
I remember in one of the novitiate classes when the novice mistress was talking about trust and that having this childlike trust, everything you need will come to you. In this monastery you are not able to ask for anything directly, but simply state what the "problem" is and then the superior will tell you what to do. Say if you had a headache and were tired you couldn't ask if you can take medicine and get extra rest, but rather say "I have a headache and i'm tired" then you were told what to do.
[/quote]

Wow - it strikes me as interesting how each community differs regarding permissions as an exercise of poverty and/or obedience. In my former community, if we didn't simply ask directly we were told that we were not acting in a "mature religious" fashion and that childlike simplicity required that we state simply and succinctly what we desired, being careful not to ask for something that we felt the answer would be "no" so as not to put our superior in the position of having to say no.

Interesting.......

[emmaberry]

[quote name='mantellata' timestamp='1346783284' post='2478338']
Wow - it strikes me as interesting how each community differs regarding permissions as an exercise of poverty and/or obedience. In my former community, if we didn't simply ask directly we were told that we were not acting in a "mature religious" fashion and that childlike simplicity required that we state simply and succinctly what we desired, being careful not to ask for something that we felt the answer would be "no" so as not to put our superior in the position of having to say no.
[/quote]
It is weird how poverty, especially in permissions, differs so much between communities! The Roswell PCCs ask permissions for everything: glasses of water, etc. A friend who was with the Wyoming Carmelite Monks gave me the advice not to enter a community that required permissions for such simple things. Mother Mary Francis always use to say that these permissions were the soul's swaddling bands that render our pride nonexistent and allow Mary to hold us in her arms with the Infant Jesus. I agree with her! Even though communities differ, I am glad that so many utilize these permissions!

[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1346780659' post='2478319']
I remember in one of the novitiate classes when the novice mistress was talking about trust and that having this childlike trust, everything you need will come to you. In this monastery you are not able to ask for anything directly, but simply state what the "problem" is and then the superior will tell you what to do. Say if you had a headache and were tired you couldn't ask if you can take medicine and get extra rest, but rather say "I have a headache and i'm tired" then you were told what to do, and most of the time you of course would get medicine and get extra rest, but doing it this was was an act of that trust and total abandonment to the providence of God. It reminded me of Our Blessed Mother at the wedding feast at Cana when they were out of wine, She went to Jesus and said, "they have no wine." She didn't say, "give them more wine, they don't have anymore." The way She had said this was so simple and a complete act of trust and surrender to whatever He was going to do.
[/quote]
That's so interesting. I love the thought of mimicking Our Lady at Cana!

[ACS67]

These last few posts actually answer a question I have been having lately. In regards to older vocations some Carmels say "yes" but they always stipulate that most older women do not "persevere." I was wondering, "Why would that be?" Permissions could be one reason why many do not persevere. After being on your own for so long and living independently, having to ask permission for an aspirin would be quite foreign! And to be honest, quite irritating. Again, just being honest. I'm speaking only for myself of course.

Thanks VeniJesuAmorMi for your post.

[ToJesusMyHeart]

[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1346780659' post='2478319']
I remember in one of the novitiate classes when the novice mistress was talking about trust and that having this childlike trust, everything you need will come to you. In this monastery you are not able to ask for anything directly, but simply state what the "problem" is and then the superior will tell you what to do. Say if you had a headache and were tired you couldn't ask if you can take medicine and get extra rest, but rather say "I have a headache and i'm tired" then you were told what to do, and most of the time you of course would get medicine and get extra rest, but doing it this was was an act of that trust and total abandonment to the providence of God. It reminded me of Our Blessed Mother at the wedding feast at Cana when they were out of wine, She went to Jesus and said, "they have no wine." She didn't say, "give them more wine, they don't have anymore." The way She had said this was so simple and a complete act of trust and surrender to whatever He was going to do.
[/quote]

I absolutely love this. Such a beautiful way to be child-like and humble.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1346789710' post='2478374']
It is weird how poverty, especially in permissions, differs so much between communities! The Roswell PCCs ask permissions for everything: glasses of water, etc. A friend who was with the Wyoming Carmelite Monks gave me the advice not to enter a community that required permissions for such simple things. Mother Mary Francis always use to say that these permissions were the soul's swaddling bands that render our pride nonexistent and allow Mary to hold us in her arms with the Infant Jesus. I agree with her! Even though communities differ, I am glad that so many utilize these permissions!
[/quote]

My friend who is much older than I entered an active/contemplative order who is very rooted in tradition. She (as a postulant) was washing dishes one day and saw that her long sleeves were getting wet from the water so she decided to roll them up. Now, in secular life, this would have no bearing on day to day activities but the Sisters do not show any of the skin on their arms or legs. Their habits are very long. One of the Mothers saw what she had done and rebuked her immediately saying, "We are not allowed to roll up our shirt sleeves." She thought this was very harsh but, as an older woman, was used to doing things on her own since she lived and worked by herself for many years. She knew this kind of life wasn't for her. Seemingly, one of the Mothers warned her that she'd have trouble fitting in. They decided to allow her to try it out in case they were mistaken, but she just wasn't able to adjust to the new lifestyle and the community asked her to leave.

I imagine it's very difficult to get used to asking permission for things that you wouldn't even think about -- such as a glass of water. I remember watching "The Nun's Story" and the scene where they wrote everything down that they had done wrong was an eye opener. One of the postulants wrote something to the effect of, "I accuse myself for taking a glass of water without asking permission." It's very humbling to have to kneel in front of the Superior to ask for simple necessities such as toothpaste, water, deodorant, etc. It's not for everyone, but if you can do it with pure love for Christ and His Blessed Mother, I'm sure you will be rewarded one-hundredfold.

[mantellata]

I'm surprised that an active order of any stripe would be that detailed with permissions..... if nothing else than it would make it difficult in the apostolate -- you would think that the use of tacit permission in such matters would be more than sufficient.

In the monastic life I can see this working only because the whole point for many was to find a road to White Martyrdom since Red Martyrdom is a little less available. I know other monastic communities who do not avail themselves of this kind of penance and are good and holy Sisters as well.

Diverse ways of denying oneself I suppose!

[emmaberry]

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1346790283' post='2478383']
These last few posts actually answer a question I have been having lately. In regards to older vocations some Carmels say "yes" but they always stipulate that most older women do not "persevere." I was wondering, "Why would that be?" Permissions could be one reason why many do not persevere. After being on your own for so long and living independently, having to ask permission for an aspirin would be quite foreign! And to be honest, quite irritating. Again, just being honest. I'm speaking only for myself of course.

Thanks VeniJesuAmorMi for your post.
[/quote]
Yes, this is one reason most communities have for their (often) low age limits. Health is also an issue when the candidate is older, but most communities will cite the first reason more often. I am sure, in the end, most older women leave the cloister because of the complete lack of independence and 'I am running my own ship' mentality we Americans have. Many older women persevere in the cloister, though, so this is a generality and not true for every case.

[maximillion]

My community were enclosed contemplative, but we all asked 'for the General Permission Dear Mother', each month when we begged our supplies (toothpaste, etc).

This 'General Permission' was for things it would mean either interrupting our recollection, or the work in hand, or some other important reason (having to leave the kitchen pots unattended) if we went to seek out the permission. We were expected to then mention that one took the General Permission and the occasion of having made use of it. This was emphasised more in novitiate and was of course a check to ensure we were using it appropriately. In addition, each of the sisters in perpetual vows was franchised to give permissions to anyone not in vows. For Postulants and first year novices this made it easier to seek out a permission straight away as we were not often alone. Sisters in Vows had to seek out a Superior in order to ask permissions.
So....in the drink of water situation, we could take one, but had to say (with humility) that we had done so. We used to smile as the first part of Rec was peppered with novices advancing to the middle of the room and bowing as they addressed NM, saying 'Mother I took the GP for a drink of water'....or 'Mother, I took the GP to stroke the cat....' (Smiles all round).

Another little thing that had us see Christ in our sister was that anything we took to our personal use was acknowledged as being 'from your bounty sister', with a little bow of the head. This was in recognition that God was using the hands of that sister in order to provide our need of the moment.

Lots of little considered-by-the-world-as-quirky things like this to get used to when one enters that it is not possible for foresee in advance.

[emmaberry]

[quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1346833465' post='2478672']
My community were enclosed contemplative, but we all asked 'for the General Permission Dear Mother', each month when we begged our supplies (toothpaste, etc).

This 'General Permission' was for things it would mean either interrupting our recollection, or the work in hand, or some other important reason (having to leave the kitchen pots unattended) if we went to seek out the permission. We were expected to then mention that one took the General Permission and the occasion of having made use of it. This was emphasised more in novitiate and was of course a check to ensure we were using it appropriately. In addition, each of the sisters in perpetual vows was franchised to give permissions to anyone not in vows. For Postulants and first year novices this made it easier to seek out a permission straight away as we were not often alone. Sisters in Vows had to seek out a Superior in order to ask permissions.
So....in the drink of water situation, we could take one, but had to say (with humility) that we had done so. We used to smile as the first part of Rec was peppered with novices advancing to the middle of the room and bowing as they addressed NM, saying 'Mother I took the GP for a drink of water'....or 'Mother, I took the GP to stroke the cat....' (Smiles all round).

Another little thing that had us see Christ in our sister was that anything we took to our personal use was acknowledged as being 'from your bounty sister', with a little bow of the head. This was in recognition that God was using the hands of that sister in order to provide our need of the moment.

Lots of little considered-by-the-world-as-quirky things like this to get used to when one enters that it is not possible for foresee in advance.
[/quote]

Love, especially the "Mother I stroked the cat" and "from your bounty, Sister."

[ToJesusMyHeart]

[quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1346833465' post='2478672']
My community were enclosed contemplative, but we all asked 'for the General Permission Dear Mother', each month when we begged our supplies (toothpaste, etc).
[/quote]

Which community were you with, if I may ask?

[maximillion]

It was unfortunately suppressed due to lack of vocations in the late 80's. Sacred Heart, France.

From what I can gather we were like the Tyburn nuns, though not Benedictine. Our spirituality was Ignatian.
I never thought about it before but maybe there is/was a connection since the Tyburn nuns came from France.......
We were adorers of the Sacred Heart in every sense, Penitential and with strict enclosure.

[emmaberry]

[quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1346862484' post='2478770']
It was unfortunately suppressed due to lack of vocations in the late 80's. Sacred Heart, France.

From what I can gather we were like the Tyburn nuns, though not Benedictine. Our spirituality was Ignatian.
I never thought about it before but maybe there is/was a connection since the Tyburn nuns came from France.......
We were adorers of the Sacred Heart in every sense, Penitential and with strict enclosure.
[/quote]

That is so unfortunate about the vocations.. The fact that even a flourishing community can be suppressed in the future because of low vocations is something I have been reminding myself of in the application process for my community. Very hard reality to face.