Housewives...

[MissScripture]

When I hear the term "housewife" depending on the context, I either think of a June Cleaver type person, or else those people from those stupid shows, "The Real Housewives of..." Kind of polar opposites...

About the only reason I would use the term "housewife" would be becasue it's shorter to say than, "Stay at home mom."

[Winchester]

Looks like lots of people have computers in the kitchen.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1292604618' post='2193185']
Looks like lots of people have computers in the kitchen.
[/quote]
I actually do often take my laptop into the kitchen - almost all my recipes are on the computer, anyway.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Archaeology cat

[CatherineM]

Today, I'm feeling more like a house elf actually.

[rachael]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1292604618' post='2193185']
Looks like lots of people have computers in the kitchen.
[/quote]
Would you like a sandwich?

[Winchester]

[quote name='rachael' timestamp='1292609062' post='2193199']
Would you like a sandwich?
[/quote]
I recognize a set up when I see one.

[Era Might]

[quote name='rachael' timestamp='1292362201' post='2192761']
This comes from a discussion I was having with someone earlier. What's your opinion on the word housewife? Does it carry a negative connotation with you? Or does it not bother you at all? Or does it bring butterflies to your stomach? What is a housewife to you? What is their 'job,' so to speak? Just curious.
[/quote]
That's an interesting way to put it, what is their "job." I think part of the problem with the modern conception of "housewife" is that it is based on the economization of every part of society. Even if "housewives" or "stay at home mothers" are accepted, they are distinguished from women who "work" (i.e., women who serve the economy in a formal way). There is the perception that a "working woman" is more honorable. Actually, it's interesting that I just used the phrase "working woman." I wasn't referring to prostitutes, but it occurred to me that the phrase is a euphemism for prostitutes. Prostitutes are "working women," yet they don't really serve the economy, and they are looked down upon in society in a way that more formal "working women" are not. Pornography actors are higher up in the social ladder than prostitutes, because they serve the economy; they do "real work."

Anyway, to return to what I was saying about the economization of every part of society, it's not limited to "housewives." Just the other day I was having dinner with the owner of my company, and he was saying that most people who teach are people who couldn't hack it in "the real world" (he used that phrase). He acknowledged that some people don't have financial ambitions, and thus they gravitate to teaching, and he didn't begrudge these people their lack of ambition (e.g., people who teach philosophy, literature, etc). But he said that most of the people who teach are people who can't succeed in "the real world." What he's really saying is that "the real world" is the financial economy. This, I think, is an accurate reflection of our society's perception of people like "housewives." Another similar social figure is young people. Among the many reasons why I loathe the modern education system, one stands out: the high school culture of achievement. Young people in high school have to live up to all these achievements: join clubs, take certain classes that will reflect well on your transcript, do mandatory community service, etc. The purpose of all this, of course, is to prepare them for their roles as servants of the economy. That is the only way to really succeed in our society. If someone drops out of school, then they have basically dropped out of society. Like housewives, the school dropout lives outside of the economic system (schools are sort of the mothers that give birth to the people in the system; without society's schools, most people aren't allowed to be born).

Our society does not recognize what housewives do as "real work." It may regard it as necessary work, but not "real work" in the "real world," because it doesn't directly serve the economy. That's why I found it interesting how you phrased the question, what is a housewive's "job." The implicit assumption (not by you, but by the word itself) is that unless we have a "job," then we are not really part of society, because to have a "job" is to be plugged in to the economic system. Those without jobs are people living outside the system (and in that sense, they are very dangerous to the system...because it is a threat that the system is not as necessary as it imagines itself to be).

Why do Americans have such an instinctive distaste for the mother on welfare with four kids? It is because she is living outside the system (like a housewife), but she is also benefiting from the system. The housewife is not as loathed because she relies on her husband rather than the system. But still, there is a kinship between the housewife and the welfare mother. They are both attacks on the system in their own ways. The housewife is an attack on the system in the sense that she witness to the lost role of family that the system has replaced, while the welfare mother is a witness to the lost role of community that the system has destroyed. Of course, we prefer to villainize the welfare mother rather than the system that created her, because we have bought into the economization of society and of ourselves. The welfare mother and the housewife are like Herman Melville's famous character Bartleby. He works in the banking world, and one day he just stops working. He doesn't give a reason, he doesn't explain himself, he just keeps responding, "I would prefer not to work." What does society do with such a person? Our society usually villainizes them, in varying degrees and forms: the housewife, the welfare mother, the homeless man, the unproductive young person, the prostitute, etc.

If you're interested in the topic of housewives, check out the book "Gender" by Ivan Illich. He explores modern and traditional conceptions of gender, and the theme I was discussing, the role of gender in the modern economy.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Era Might

[homeschoolmom]

"housewife" in and of itself isn't derogatory... but the phrase, "just a housewife" is... and I've heard it plenty.

[Brother Adam]

We often forget, but stay at home moms rule the world.

[img]http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/20/2092/M6N2D00Z/posters/icon-of-the-blessed-virgin.jpg[/img]

[rizz_loves_jesus]

I'm okay with the term "housewife" unless someone is telling me that that's the only thing I should be doing with my life. Then I get pretty miffed.

[Sternhauser]

Fulton Sheen had some wisdom on this subject. The full article is gold. Here's a nugget.

"Even peace is based upon the power of Three Nations rather than on the Justice of God. Shall women, in this day of the collapse of justice equate themselves with men in rigid exactness, or shall they rally to Equity, to mercy and love and give to a cruel and lawless world some something that equality cannot give? Whence shall come a devotion to causes, if women who are capable of greater devotion then men, insist on a cold equality? How shall wars be stopped and the taking of young life, if women, like men, trust only in law?

But if women, in the full consciousness of their creativeness say to the world: "It takes us twenty years to make a man, and we rebel against wars every generation snuffing out that manhood in war." Such an attitude would do more for the peace of the world than all the covenants and pacts that have no other basis than expediency and deceit. Did women but recognize the truth hidden in the Lady of Equity, love might be restored to homes and families. The reason there is little love now is because in the human order there is never any love between equals. There may be justice, but no affection. If man is the equal of woman, then she has rights, but what heart ever lived on rights. All love demands inequality or superiority. The lover is always on his knees, the beloved must always be on a pedestal. Whether it be man or woman, the one must always consider himself or herself as undeserving of the other."

[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.info/morality/general/cwoman.htm"]http://www.catholica...eral/cwoman.htm[/url]

~Sternhauser

Edited December 23, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1292379203' post='2192788']
Whenever someone says to me something like "they're partners," in reference to deviants from sexuality, I have a tendency to say, with a completely serious face, "Oh, they're partners? What kind of business are they in?" I've found it tends to expose the nonsense for what it is. If they don't notice the subtlety, and follow up by saying, "They're [i]gay," [/i]I'm sure to follow up with, "Oh, I didn't know you could make money doing that."

They tried to steal the rainbow. Hades if they're going to steal a perfectly good[i] word.[/i]

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
love it.

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1292602719' post='2193180']
When I hear the term "housewife" depending on the context, I either think of a June Cleaver type person, or else those people from those stupid shows, "The Real Housewives of..." Kind of polar opposites...

About the only reason I would use the term "housewife" would be becasue it's shorter to say than, "Stay at home mom."
[/quote]
i thought this was going to be a debate about the Real Housewives shows.

[rachael]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1292686716' post='2193326']
That's an interesting way to put it, what is their "job." I think part of the problem with the modern conception of "housewife" is that it is based on the economization of every part of society. Even if "housewives" or "stay at home mothers" are accepted, they are distinguished from women who "work" (i.e., women who serve the economy in a formal way). There is the perception that a "working woman" is more honorable. Actually, it's interesting that I just used the phrase "working woman." I wasn't referring to prostitutes, but it occurred to me that the phrase is a euphemism for prostitutes. Prostitutes are "working women," yet they don't really serve the economy, and they are looked down upon in society in a way that more formal "working women" are not. Pornography actors are higher up in the social ladder than prostitutes, because they serve the economy; they do "real work."

Anyway, to return to what I was saying about the economization of every part of society, it's not limited to "housewives." Just the other day I was having dinner with the owner of my company, and he was saying that most people who teach are people who couldn't hack it in "the real world" (he used that phrase). He acknowledged that some people don't have financial ambitions, and thus they gravitate to teaching, and he didn't begrudge these people their lack of ambition (e.g., people who teach philosophy, literature, etc). But he said that most of the people who teach are people who can't succeed in "the real world." What he's really saying is that "the real world" is the financial economy. This, I think, is an accurate reflection of our society's perception of people like "housewives." Another similar social figure is young people. Among the many reasons why I loathe the modern education system, one stands out: the high school culture of achievement. Young people in high school have to live up to all these achievements: join clubs, take certain classes that will reflect well on your transcript, do mandatory community service, etc. The purpose of all this, of course, is to prepare them for their roles as servants of the economy. That is the only way to really succeed in our society. If someone drops out of school, then they have basically dropped out of society. Like housewives, the school dropout lives outside of the economic system (schools are sort of the mothers that give birth to the people in the system; without society's schools, most people aren't allowed to be born).

Our society does not recognize what housewives do as "real work." It may regard it as necessary work, but not "real work" in the "real world," because it doesn't directly serve the economy. That's why I found it interesting how you phrased the question, what is a housewive's "job." The implicit assumption (not by you, but by the word itself) is that unless we have a "job," then we are not really part of society, because to have a "job" is to be plugged in to the economic system. Those without jobs are people living outside the system (and in that sense, they are very dangerous to the system...because it is a threat that the system is not as necessary as it imagines itself to be).

Why do Americans have such an instinctive distaste for the mother on welfare with four kids? It is because she is living outside the system (like a housewife), but she is also benefiting from the system. The housewife is not as loathed because she relies on her husband rather than the system. But still, there is a kinship between the housewife and the welfare mother. They are both attacks on the system in their own ways. The housewife is an attack on the system in the sense that she witness to the lost role of family that the system has replaced, while the welfare mother is a witness to the lost role of community that the system has destroyed. Of course, we prefer to villainize the welfare mother rather than the system that created her, because we have bought into the economization of society and of ourselves. The welfare mother and the housewife are like Herman Melville's famous character Bartleby. He works in the banking world, and one day he just stops working. He doesn't give a reason, he doesn't explain himself, he just keeps responding, "I would prefer not to work." What does society do with such a person? Our society usually villainizes them, in varying degrees and forms: the housewife, the welfare mother, the homeless man, the unproductive young person, the prostitute, etc.

If you're interested in the topic of housewives, check out the book "Gender" by Ivan Illich. He explores modern and traditional conceptions of gender, and the theme I was discussing, the role of gender in the modern economy.
[/quote]
It's not that I necessarily look down upon housewives, but I know that I have prejudices. I know that they are not right, but I am just trying to sort them all out in my head. Personally, it is not my choice of lifestyle, but I am keenly interested as to why others what want to be housewives. I, personally, am still trying to decide if I want to be a mother or not. :/

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1292690903' post='2193333']
"housewife" in and of itself isn't derogatory... but the phrase, "just a housewife" is... and I've heard it plenty.
[/quote]
As have I.
I've seen the phrase defined in my life in several ways. The 'just a housewife' breed, who feel that a woman is born and bread to be as such - have babies, clean house, and make sandwiches, who feel that a woman should never fulfill anything else. I've seen it like I said earlier - housewives who was there to use the husband's money, occasionally birth a baby, but then spends the rest of her time and his money as she pleases, therefore living however she wishes but never being with or ever really raising her own children (why did I see so much of this when I grew up?!). I've seen it in other ways...many around here, for example, who are dedicated to their children, Church, homeschooling and such.

[rachael]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1293138207' post='2194158']



i thought this was going to be a debate about the Real Housewives shows.
[/quote]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='rachael' timestamp='1293143292' post='2194171']

[/quote]
what?