Harry Potter

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1293637689' post='2194924']
i was wearing my glasses
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Alright..... : )

[quote]

I used to really enjoy Harry Potter. I was an avid reader when I was twelve up until the last book came out while I was in high school. After setting the series down over the years, after I have grown and looked back upon the premise of the story, I am honestly ashamed I was so enraptured by it. This is not some playful view I am taking just to fight the majority in society that do enjoy Harry Potter, which is fine. I am only speaking up for why I do not enjoy the books any longer, and exactly what I find wrong with them.
First thing to mention is how the series is incredibly dark. Dark, I use in this sense is that there are very few things within the books that give a glimpse of joy. Most of the time there are only grim tidings or death strewn about, with small victories to be had. Sure death is a part of life, but it is more or less over used throughout the books. The darkness that pervades the books is apparent not only through the villains, but through the heroes themselves.

The main character, Harry Potter is the key figure within in the books. Yet, all of J.K. Rowlings' story lines have 'the ends justify the means'. So, ethically the books are flawed. Harry and the rest of his companions break all sorts of rules throughout the course of the plots, which in the end all of the rule-breaking is only waved off.

Maybe I seem to be a bit of a prude with those last couple of paragraphs, but how many books are that redeeming that the characters are rule breakers. I will not deny that the Potter books are a good story, and Rowlings is a wonderful writer, but the content and themes of her books are incredibly poor. The sad part for me is that Harry Potter is spoken of more than some other pieces of literature that should be held to a higher degree of esteem then Potter. The books are really just fiction, that captures the imagination, which is fine, books are supposed to do that. The last part of Harry Potter that really captures a pinch with me is of much more sinister nature.[/quote]

[quote]

The key part of the Harry Potter universe is the magic that is inherent in it. Magic is seen as something that makes life easier, and is used by the villains to gain power. Given the nature of Rowlings world, it is clear that magic is a part of it, but the thing is that often readers become confused by the underpinnings of spells and the like. Magic used in the real world, is not something to be messed with.

That might sound overtly suspicious, but there was a reason things started to get a little crazy when Ouija boards were big back in the 70s and 80s. You generally do not want to mess with the otherworldly, or even get near it. And coming from my own Catholic background, demons play through such things. Spiritual warfare, when concerning magic, gets very real. Otherwise, this is just a brief explanation without going into detail within the books.

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[Lil Red]

haha, thanks! i just have a hard time reading white lettering on a dark background. guess i'm getting old. *walk of shame*

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1293665164' post='2195011']
haha, thanks! i just have a hard time reading white lettering on a dark background. guess i'm getting old. *walk of shame*
[/quote]

haha no problem at all!!!!

Sorry for giving you a hard time. : )

[tinytherese]

From http://www.decentfilms.com/articles/magic.html The film critic is an orhtodox Catholic.

[Teen_Catholic]

bump

[AccountDeleted]

Well, if we were talking theology here, then I would say a definite 'no' to Harry Potter. But we aren't. And as far as entertainment goes, I actually dislike the so-called 'Christian' Lord of the Rings and even though I have tried to watch it many times over the years, I have yet to sit through a whole movie - and I prefer HP for pure entertainment value. I have been told over and over again by friends that LOTR is much better, but it is personal preference. I couldn't even get through the LOTR books and yet I read all 7 of the HP ones.

I thought HP was well written and entertaining and fun. The books are better than the movies to me because the movies come across as a lot darker but that is artistic licence I think. In the books, I definitely saw the fight between good and evil a lot better, and although, yes, there were rules broken, let's not deify rules either. Even Jesus broke rules when it suited His purposes. I am in no way comparing Jesus with HP here but I am just pointing out that rules are rules.... David took the sacred bread, Jesus healed on the Sabbath etc etc.

That all being said, if I were allowing my child to read HP or watch a HP film, I would be doing some advance preparation in the way of explanations about the fantasy magic vs the real world of withcraft/demons, right vs wrong, the ends do not justify the means etc. Kids have fantasy worlds like the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and their TV shows are full of talking animals and all manner of fantasy creatures... without trying to strip them of all of this, it is good to help them see the difference between reality and fantasy and between the natural and supernatural in a way that is consistent with our faith. I would also consider the emotional and spiritual maturity of the child before allowing them to see the movies because they can be very scary... but then so can some of the Disney movies too! So, once again, parental guidance needed here!

For an adult, I don't personally see anything wrong with the movies. I fully intend to see the last one when it comes out, even though I already know the ending!

[CatherineM]

We listen to the audio book version in the car.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1292202670' post='2192439']
What they don't get is more and more teens are seriously into "wicca" and paganism, actually experimenting with rituals of a supernatural nature. Many teens say their interest was initially sparked by reading Harry Potter books.
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No, their interest was sparked by watered down Christianity and poor catechesis.

[faithcecelia]

'There comes a time when we all have to choose between what is right and what is easy'



The above quote is Dumbledore talking to Harry, and has become very important to me. I have read all the books and find them to be good morally and reflective of our daily battles with evil - our lives are a constant battle between evil and good, and we all know the pain and damage evil causes in the world. As others have said, I see it no differently to the Narnia books and Lord of the Rings - a fantasy story with deep morality running through.

[jmjtina]

if you don't think LOTR is better than all your logic goes down the drain! LOL, kidding. Actually, the grade level is significantly lower in HP, but I digress......

I already have my midnight tickets to the IMAX.......3-D!!! I also have been going to the LOTR extended versions out in theaters.....boosh!!!!

with that being said, I personally wouldn't recommend for young children, it's waaaaaaay to scary and dark as the series progresses, and it does mirror the occult in some instances. Exactly? No, but I think we should be careful what our kiddos are reading and know what our kiddos are reading. But that is for a parent to decide and I completely respect it. Patrick Madrid was very against it, I heard him speak at a conference and I completely agree with him. He went through the book for us. Let me just say, it was a great year for Youth Ministry/senior CCD class discussions!

The problem comes when parents don't know what their kids are doing.......or parents completely ban it when they don't know anything about it.

and just for the record, there IS a HUGE difference in LOTR/Narnia and HP IMHO. I've already posted on this years ago.


pax.

anyone going to see all movies 2 days in a row? $38 bucks at our theater. Also they have the double feature (Part 1 and Part 2) tickets selling. I'm a huge movie buff. If I wasn't going out of town the following day I would have done the 2 day in a row treat.

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1292194212' post='2192401']
Oh yeah, it would be horrific to allow my kids to read a story about loyalty, good versus evil, and an underlying theme that you have a choice between doing what's right, and what's easy.

We also need to stop reading the Wizard of Oz, Lord of the Rings, Narnia, and I guess pretty much all Sci Fi really.
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[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1292203947' post='2192444']
I do find it interesting that those who are most vehemently against Harry Potter, have never cracked open a single one of the books.
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[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/like.gif[/img]

You always hear stuff about how Harry Potter will make kids evil. In all reality, it portrays evil as the bad side, and the vast majority of readers side with the good, learn to fight for the good, and that love conquers all. Harry's parents died so that he might live... ultimate sacrifice, anyone? Later in the series, Harry is ready to do that for his friends and vice versa. From personal experience, the series teaches more about loyalty, kindness, and selflessness than anything else.

[ThePenciledOne]

For the most part it's not even the magic in HP that gets me. It's the ethics.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1309708341' post='2262631']
For the most part it's not even the magic in HP that gets me. It's the ethics.
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Yeah...magic in a fantasy story? That's kinda...normal. I mean, do these people who complain about magic in HP not read Cinderella to their little kids?

The question is often how the magic is used. What are the...rules...of the fantasy world? In Harry Potter, magic is an ability you are born with...or you aren't. There is nothing you can do to 'become' a witch/wizard if you are born a muggle. I think this is hugely important for nipping the occult mentality of a power source that is available for anyone to tap into....

Does this mean that there aren't kids who will read Harry Potter and then become interested in learning spells? No. But it does mean that the author made a deliberate attempt to avoid that outcome.


But the ethics...there are some issues there. By establishing Gryffindors as the good guys and Slytherins as the bad guys, there is sorta an inevitable impression that anything the heroes do is okay...simply because they are the good guys. This is a flaw of many fantasy stories, but HP is not immune. In fact...forget the rule-breaking (common to many school stories) of the early books. By the last book, the 'good guys' are using 2 of the 3 Unforgivable Curses that were introduced as so horribly inappropriate in book 4. Yes, in a war situation, people will do some terrible things when caught in desperate circumstances. But...that doesn't make it okay. You can't be a good guy....unless you actually act like one. That is one lesson Tolkien was well aware of, and he was meticulous about working that into his stories.

Oh, and what makes a bad guy one of the bad guys? The single criteria is inevitably his opinion on the political/social question of blood purity. If one holds to the old fashioned idea that purebloods are better than halfbloods, muggleborns, muggles or nonhuman persons, than one is clearly marked as one of the bad guys. This single 'tell' is way too simplistic, like making all the bad guys ugly (go ahead, read her descriptions of Slytherins...even Narcissa's long blond hair is compared to a drowning victim's in the beginning of book 6). By reducing morality to a single question, the bad guys become a bit too obvious, but also bigotry is treated as the main/only crime (since that is what they all share). There is no nuance to the world views presented here, and the reader is left to comfortably view the evil characters as 'other' without encouraging much (if any) soul-searching.

So certainly some attention to the ethical underpinings could have improved the story, but the author put the effort into making it a tale with Christian themes - love, sacrifice, accepting your own death.... In fact, she thought that if people found out she were a Christian, that would 'give away' the ending of the story! In the world of Harry Potter, people have souls and there is an afterlife. Do you know how countercultural that idea is becoming?

I think the writing was mediocre (not terrible, but not brilliant, either), but that the story-telling was top notch. She knew how to keep you turning pages to figure out the mystery, and was able to merge many different types of stories into her tale. The adult characters were the best, though, and the long-term consequences of their actions was a good counterpoint to the decision-making of Harry and friends. And at the end of the day, the magical world she created was multi-faceted and enchanting.

I liked these stories enough to write my own using her world and characters

http://occlumency.sycophanthex.com/viewuser.php?uid=6945

(If you do follow that link, I cannot vouch for the rest of the content at that site. Heed all warnings.)

[elizabeth09]

I can not see God in HP as I can see God in LOTR and Narnia because we are not just dealing with good and evil, but we are also dealing with more magic then anything in my life.

[Basilisa Marie]

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[color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4][quote][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]I think the writing was mediocre (not terrible, but not brilliant, either), but that the story-telling was top notch. She knew how to keep you turning pages to figure out the mystery, and was able to merge many different types of stories into her tale. The adult characters were the best, though, and the long-term consequences of their actions was a good counterpoint to the decision-making of Harry and friends. And at the end of the day, the magical world she created was multi-faceted and enchanting. [/size][/font][/color][color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]
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[color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]I couldn't agree more. [/size][/font][/color]
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[/size][/font][/color]As far as the ethics go...[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]Rowling has said that she wrote Gryffindors as the good guys and Slytherins as bad because she's writing primarily Harry's perspective. As he is a Gryffindor, Slytherin is his rival house. If Gryffindors are brave, Slytherins are ambitious. The fact that most "bad" wizards are from Slytherin is simply because ambition can lead to doing some very immoral things to achieve a goal. "Good" guys use unforgivable curses not to show that they are actually okay, but to show that no one is perfect, and that the world isn't divided up into "good people and Death Eaters." I think it's meant to show that even our hero isn't immune from the temptations of doing evil for a "good reason". I think it's arguable whether the ends justify the means in that situation...if anything I think it provides a really good discussion point.[/size][/font][/color]
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[font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][color="#595959"][size=4]One becomes a bad guy by doing bad things. The blood purity issue is central because one of the primary themes of the book is bigotry and its effects on society. There are a whole lot of parallels between Voldemort and Hitler (there's even Wizarding War I and Wizarding War II). It's not simply old-fashioned to think that pure bloods are superior, but bigoted. Time and time again the books show that blood status has nothing to do with one's ability (case and point: the most adept student in Harry's class has non-magical parents). The bad guys are ugly because Rowling is showing how evil corrupts. When Voldemort was a student, he was incredibly handsome...it was only after he delved into the most evil magic that he became grotesque. Physical corruption is just another way to show that. There are many levels to the bigotry shown in the books. Wizards not only look down on their fellows of humble parentage and "muggles", but refuse to let goblins use wands, treat house-elves like slaves instead of valued servants, discount the eye-witness testimony of underage wizards, and withhold job offers from those with "medically"-controlled lycanthropy. Anyone who isn't a fully qualified adult witch or wizard without a disability is a lesser person. But it's not just the bad guys who are bigoted. Professor Slughorn (in book 6) is clearly on the side of the "good guys" but often seems to be too surprised that the best student in Harry's class is a "muggle-born." Furthermore, I think it's important to note that classism is a much bigger problem in Britain than it is in the States. Or, at least it manifests itself in different ways. [/size][/color][/font]
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