How Do You Find Out Someone's True Colors

[Socrates]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1291668599' post='2191275']
This is completely wrong. People constantly change and evolve. Heck how many people on this website have changed simply by finding Catholicism?

PROTIP: I've noticed a lot of these threads always seem like the people "courting" or dating or whatever are robots. The replies are "If they do this-do that" etc.
[/quote]
Chill, dude.

People can and do change, but they change only through their own sincere (and often difficult) efforts and God's grace, not by someone else making them change. It's not something we can count on in other people.

The point is simply that girls shouldn't date or marry an abusive jerk, naively thinking (as many do) that their sweet love (or incessant nagging, or whatever) will change him around.
Most people are fairly set in their ways by the time they enter adulthood, and change is often difficult, and requires real effort on their part.

If there are serious issues with someone you're dating, these issues won't just go away after you tie the knot, but will likely be amplified and intensified.
If someone's not right now, he probably won't be in the future.

Cynical, perhaps, but realistic.

[Socrates]

[quote name='let_go_let_God' timestamp='1291648178' post='2191215']
Second, establish a good solid friendship first before you start dating/courting. By doing this you are establishing that you want to have a solid foundation first.
[/quote]
You should only date/marry someone you can actually be friends with (as opposed to someone you have only a sexual interest in, and not much else), but there's no need to go through a lengthy "just friends" phase before dating. (Though that can happen. My sister started out as being just friends with her husband, then later began a relationship.) However, if there is romantic interest, being "just friends" can create unnecessary confusion.

My wife and I met online (living in different states), and went straight to dating to engagement in less than a year, and marriage in less than two.

Relationships that drag on in indefinite status for several years or more tend to be duds. Some priests recommend the entire courtship/dating process not last more than a couple years.

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

Edit - dang, the wifes account again. must log myself in. - Brother Adam

I agree with socrates. My wife and I dated first simply because we were attracted to each other. Things did not go well and we broke up. Then we became friends and were engaged and married within two years after that.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Mrs. Bro. Adam

[tinytherese]

One of my fears is that I'll end up marrying a guy who goes from appearing to be a gentleman but then morphs into a real jerk.

Even if I didn't have the issues I've got now the lack of genteman on my own Catholic campus is frustrating. A lot of guys who have orthodox beliefs, even attend daily mass, and are active in campus ministry, yet still have the immature college kid mentality (saying that everyone should have weed at least once to know what it's like, intentionally not drinking alcohol responsibly without remorse, not having the reputation for behaving honorably towards women on campus), and or they are known for being consistently rude without showing remorse. One of them is known to let's say not be charitable towards others, especially on certain issues like homosexuality. I'm not justifying the lifestyle, but he doesn't get that we are supposed to hate the sin NOT the sinner. (He punched someone with SSA because he asked why the Catholic Church condemns such a lifestyle.)

So, I haven't seen any guy here who qualifies as a true gentleman- that is a man who respects women, is charitable and not consistently rude, mature, and who is responsible. So I feel like I'll have to wait a significant amount of time to be around men at my maturity level who I feel like I can be myself around without feeling uncomfortable.

[kafka]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7xjYeWOhbU&feature=related[/media]



I think you are idealizing or objectifying things a bit too much and this in the end is the one thing which will decieve you. Because you will be looking for something and that something might be fulfilled by another in appearance only or perhaps in your own fallen mind you might see something that isnt there.

Instead of looking for something look for someone. Find a person who is a diamond in the ruff with a heart of gold, like yourself and not necessarily a a 'true' 'qualified' 'gentlement' because you likely never find one (in accord with your model) or you might be decieved by someone who appears to be one.

And this second thing is what you are ripe for. Someone will appear to be something you are looking for and you will be decieved.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='kafka' timestamp='1291780809' post='2191531']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7xjYeWOhbU&feature=related[/media]



I think you are idealizing or objectifying things a bit too much and this in the end is the one thing which will decieve you. Because you will be looking for something and that something might be fulfilled by another in appearance only or perhaps in your own fallen mind you might see something that isnt there.

Instead of looking for something look for someone. Find a person who is a diamond in the ruff with a heart of gold, like yourself and not necessarily a a 'true' 'qualified' 'gentlement' because you likely never find one (in accord with your model) or you might be decieved by someone who appears to be one.

And this second thing is what you are ripe for. Someone will appear to be something you are looking for and you will be decieved.
[/quote]

I know that there is that temptation to expect people to be perfect or to at least behave like we do (and I am no exception.) What frustrates me is for example when a man is CONSISTENTLY rude WITHOUT REMORSE. On the other hand if it were an isolated incident or something that occasionally happens where he later feels sorry for it, I would consider him to be a man striving to be charitable.

I try not to judge and I wonder if I do set my standards too high, but I hope that my definition of an authentic gentleman isn't too much. Then again considering how long I used to be discerning the religious life, where I would literally have the perfect man for a husband, I may take my past too far into consideration when evaluating men. I had a thought earlier that we should measure ourselves up against Christ in humility instead of say, "Well at least I'm not like so-and-so, who has plenty of spiritual issues." Then again, that can be taken to the extreme too, considering how far above Our Lord is compared to us. Hmm, somehow avoiding extremes is hard for me.


An Authentic Gentleman- genuine, chivalrous, strives to not be not arrogant or rude, not possessive, not the jealous type, not abusive, lovingly protective, faithful, willing to sacrifice out of love, confident, striving for purity of thought action and speech, cooperative, respectful, responsible, and trustworthy

[Semper Catholic]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1291766864' post='2191506']
Chill, dude.

People can and do change, but they change only through their own sincere (and often difficult) efforts and God's grace, not by someone else making them change. It's not something we can count on in other people.

[/quote]

People change without even trying. Obviously not monumental changes but rarely is someone going to wake up 20 years later and be the same person they were 20 years before. Even if they didn't experience and defining moment.

People are a lot like Rock formations in that sense.

[Semper Catholic]

Also Therese maybe it's just because of your profile pic but I get the sense you're looking for something out of a Jane Austen novel

I agree that Mr. Darby is dreamy, but I've always perceived Jane Austen's romances as kind of hollow.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1291700764' post='2191375']
That's assuming that his mom is a normal mom. With my mother in law, the fact that he speaks to her, and hasn't knocked her off a bridge, says a lot about him.
[/quote]
The type of person the mother is DEFINITELY has to be taken into account. Not only because of the way he treats her, but chances are she had a good deal to do with raising him, so at least some aspects of his outlook on life will be colored by that.

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' timestamp='1291701046' post='2191377']




What in the world is a "normal" mom, anyway?!
[/quote]
Well, there are varying degrees of not normal...I mean, for example my mother brings her own sponge when they come to visit, because I use dish cloths and she prefers a sponge. CatherineM's mother-in-law tries to report her to immigration...



[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1291817151' post='2191573']
People change without even trying. Obviously not monumental changes but rarely is someone going to wake up 20 years later and be the same person they were 20 years before. Even if they didn't experience and defining moment.

People are a lot like Rock formations in that sense.
[/quote]
Except you tend to change in the direction you were already headed, so if their headed one direction, and have no plan to change course, well, yeah, they'll change, but it won't be a great change unless they consciously try to change for the better.

[Donna]

It's frustrating reading this thread.

TT, I agree with what was said that friends, loved ones and so on whose true colors you do know...[i]listen to them[/i] re: any guy you may get serious about.

It's completely logical that you are concerned about being deceived. I personally would be careful about taking advice from those who haven't had direct
experience in having been deceived by someone very intelligent and cunning. I don't mean only the partner of someone deceptive/abusive -
there's usually a list of people around such a relationship, who have their own story of the shock and etc; of finding out about the deceiver.

[thessalonian]

I don't know if I will be much help with my input. Marriage shows the warts that weren't noticed during courtship. I think love is blind by God's design. God puts people together who would never get married if they really knew eachother and binds their relationship by a sacrament, without which many if not most would never stay together. He does this because we overcome our sins in such relationships and we learn to forgive. There are of course "charmed" marriages but they are not as common as we think and most marriages are filled with trial of some sort. So do the best you can to pick a good husband. Seek a virtuous man but don't expect him to be as perfect as you think he is and set your goal on helping him and your children get to heaven.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1291658419' post='2191240']
Purposely make him late to the start of a movie. [/quote]

In my experience, it is the people who do things like THIS that are emotionally abusive and are the ones we need to watch out for.

[Semper Catholic]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1291872526' post='2191709']
In my experience, it is the people who do things like THIS that are emotionally abusive and are the ones we need to watch out for.
[/quote]

Agreed, I think I'd rather suffer through Chinese water torture. And none of this "oh we can miss the trailers" deal either.

You shouldn't be testing your significant other. I don't leave a pile of dirty dishes up in the sink to see if she'll do them. Last time I did that she flushed the toilet when I was taking a shower.

[MithLuin]

I agree that purposely 'testing' someone isn't very kind. But I will maintain that if you are together long enough, such 'tests' will naturally arise. For instance, any guy taking me to a movie will likely be walking into the theater during the trailers. Not because I'm setting him up....but because that's how it happens. I've run through airports on multiple occasions. You get stuck in traffic, etc. If someone has a short fuse or a mean streak....it'll come out soon enough.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1291896267' post='2191725']
I agree that purposely 'testing' someone isn't very kind. But I will maintain that if you are together long enough, such 'tests' will naturally arise. For instance, any guy taking me to a movie will likely be walking into the theater during the trailers. Not because I'm setting him up....but because that's how it happens. I've run through airports on multiple occasions. You get stuck in traffic, etc. If someone has a short fuse or a mean streak....it'll come out soon enough.
[/quote]
this