Ok Women, What Is Your Take On This.

[4588686]

Ok. I need some insight/wisdom from the woman of phatmass (although anyone's contribution is welcome).

Around the first month of the semester I met this girl. We got along well and started hanging out. We probably spend several hours together everyday. I'm not trying to turn it into a romantic relationship with her, but I do genuinely enjoy spending time with her and really like her as a person. She really does have many wonderful qualities. She is extremely smart, she's intense and has more than her fair share of spunk, she's also funny and really very interesting to talk to. However there are some problems.

-The parameters of the relationship. She is somewhat misanthropic. She loves her friends but dislikes most people. So even just being friends with her is intense, which I am fine with. But I don't think she knows what she wants out of this. She has asked me before if I have romantic feelings for her. I've told her 'no' which is true. She has told me that if I ever fall in love she will never speak to me again. I find that melodramatic but inconsequential. If she were interested in a relationship I probably would be too, but those feelings haven't developed yet and I have no intention of working to develop them. And I can even understand why she might have been suspicious at first that I didn't have feelings for her. She is beautiful and has a lot of sexual charisma (although she's not sexually active at all). The strange thing is that she acts like we are in a relationship. She is territorial towards other women. For example, there is a freshman girl who has some sort of crush on me. I could understand why she would dislike her. The girl gives off a vibe of being used to being a princess. I mean, she's a sweet girl, and a religious Catholic, but you still can tell that she's used to being the pretty and popular girl. That can be obnoxious, particularly if you are like her (the girl I'm friends with), in that you are used to being this dominate, desirable feminine figure and now some bubbly freshman comes in and expects the world to revolver around her. If she wants to be catty with her I really don't care. But sometimes she is hostile towards other women I am friends with. A friend of mine is having roommate issues and asked slept in my dorm (on a extra bed I have since my old roommate moved to a larger dorm) a few nights ago. When she found out about this she asked questions that made it clear that she felt like the friend had feelings for me (which is not the case). "I thought she was X's (more former roommate) friend?" 'Yeah, but we're friends too' "Well. Aren't you popular". You get the idea. A mutual friend of ours developed feelings for her. We talked the night he told her. Right before he sister picked her up to go home for the break she said something odd. "So Y (some friend of hers who was around that morning, I forget her name) asked me once you left why we aren't dating. She was just like, 'but you two would be great together!'". You get the idea. I find her conflicting attitude confusing. If she wants a relationship, I'd be fine with it (not to say that I would want to actually take he up on it). If she doesn't want a relationship I'm fine with it. But seeming to go both directions at once is odd.

-She comes off very insecure about my attitude towards her. I feel like I have to constantly reassure her that I respect her and see her as being on my 'level'. She has told me that she needs me to see her as a threat. That is, as someone who could be her enemy (as I understand it). She is used to being intimidating. She is sexy and intense. If she were less attractive I think most men would not find her intimidating, she's just be seen as a beesh (I disagree with that view that many have of her. She really can be a wonderful and sweet person if she likes you). But because her intense, in your face attitude is combined with her sexual appeal, men tend to be intimidated by her. Women also find her intense and a Alpha personality. I think they are also intimidated by her because they know she can sway men and turn men against them if she wants. Unfortunately for her, I'm just not intimidated with her. I'm not an actively dominate person with her. I'm pretty deferential. I'm just happy to spend time with her. It really doesn't matter what we do. Unfortunately, she is observant enough to be able to distinguish an attitude of general deference with an attitude of being genuinely intimidated. That I am not intimidated by her seems to bother her. She also seems used to being able to play to drama and have people eating out of her hand. On the margin, I've shown that I'm willing to deal with her drama and cater to it, but when push comes to shove I've been pretty clear that I'm not going to let her really jerk me around. Once we had a fight of sorts. She had been emotional all night and jerking me around with some supposed paranoia that I had slept with a female friend of mine (not true). Finally she just got up, said that 'this isn't going to work' and just left, despite that I called after her. I texted her, saing that I didn't want things to end. She responded with a lot of drama. How things with her are always had, and this 'this very conversation was proof that things wouldn't work'. So finally I lost patience. I texted her back saying that I'm confused why she's doing this, I really enjoyed the time we spent together and I'll miss her, but if that's what she wants then fine, if she wants to talk let me know. I wasn't mean or vindictive. I needed to talk to a friend of mine. When I found him she in the room and was reading my text. I came in. Before I could talk to him, she started talking.
"What the hell was that?!"
'What? I thought that's what you wanted?'
"That's kind of harsh, you went to the other extreme don't you think?!"
I kind of threw up my hands, because I was genuinely annoyed be her vacillating, told her we could talk about it later, addressed what I needed to with my friend, and then left. Honestly, I think what bothered her was my attitude. I was clearly a little irked by her behavior, but I was pretty calm about the whole thing. That wasn't an act. I would prefer to continue what we had but I also got piece of mind by things coming to, what at the time seemed like, a conclusion.

After that she asked me to come by. She acted like she didn't understand what was going on. It was just weird.

Last night we had a similar spat. She was in a good mood and we were having fun before she left because I wouldn't back down on something she wanted. She left. I texted her. She told me to leave her alone. We said a few small things and she stopped responding. Honestly, I neither know what to do. I really do like her. I really do want our relationship to continue, but at times she just acts childishly and honestly I'm reluctant to feed into it.

So my question to the women of phatmass (or men) is this.

Based on what I've told you, what do you think her deal is? Honestly, what I want to do is find a nice way to say, "Look. I really do like you. You can trust me. I'll be there for you. But you need to drop the bull poo and mind games" I can't really give her an ultimatum though. I know she's been hurt in the past by unreliable people and she often feels that people will leave her when they find out how extreme she is. I'm fine with her extremes. But I want to get past her testing and pushing to see if I'll leave.

Questions? Comments? Advice?

[Sternhauser]

Hassan, stay in the relationship. It's clearly not healthy now, but she'll change. Really.

~Sternhauser

[MIKolbe]

I try to stay away from insecure people with power trips. I haven't talked to myself going on a month now.

[rachael]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1291299384' post='2190350']
I try to stay away from insecure people with power trips. I haven't talked to myself going on a month now.
[/quote]
This is also why I haven't returned your calls.

[HopefulBride]

Honestly it sounds like you might be connected to her on an emotional level (you mentioned that you did not want the[b] [i]relationship[/i][/b] to end) I couldn't help but noticed that you did not use the word friendship.

My suggestion as a woman is to spend less time with her so that the boundaries become clearer; perhaps with some time apart it will help you guys sort out what you want from each other (whether a friendship or a romantic relationship)

[4588686]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1291303746' post='2190362']
Honestly it sounds like you might be connected to her on an emotional level (you mentioned that you did not want the[b] [i]relationship[/i][/b] to end) I couldn't help but noticed that you did not use the word friendship.

My suggestion as a woman is to spend less time with her so that the boundaries become clearer; perhaps with some time apart it will help you guys sort out what you want from each other (whether a friendship or a romantic relationship)
[/quote]


Yeah. She has extremely high standards of who she considers a friend. Until recently she always used the neutral term of 'relationship' between us. We did have a relation, but it hadn't reached the level of friendship (by which she means life long friendship, almost on the level of family). She's begun to use the term friend but I'm still used to using her term. But she's used that term within the time frame she made the dating comment.

Just to clarify. Thank you for your advice. We have Christmas break coming up. So we will be spending time apart in the near future. I'm not sure what this will mean though. Why do you think this will help? Because it will allow time for objectivity and reflection? Or do you have something else in mind?

Also, what do you mean by, "honestly it sounds like you might be connected to her on an emotional level"?

Edited December 2, 2010 by Hasan

[4588686]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1291298188' post='2190346']
Hassan, stay in the relationship. It's clearly not healthy now, but she'll change. Really.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

Thank you. I guess one thing I would say is this. I don't want her to change who she is. I'm fine dealing with the lows of that because in many ways she really is an amazing and wonderful person. I'm not willing to deal with the lows (indefinitely) if their cause is her wanting to test me.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1291304684' post='2190365']
Thank you. I guess one thing I would say is this. I don't want her to change who she is. I'm fine dealing with the lows of that because in many ways she really is an amazing and wonderful person. I'm not willing to deal with the lows (indefinitely) if their cause is her wanting to test me.
[/quote]

Do you wish to be involved with her romantically though? I gathered from your OP that you were on the fence about that (that it depended on her) What about her? Have you asked her whether or not she wishes to be romantically involved? you said she asked you but you didn't mention whether or not you asked her that question directly (sorry if I missed it)

[rkwright]

My thoughts...

People don't really change when you begin dating them - if anything all the qualities you enjoy/do not enjoy are amplified. So these "spats" of drama you're having now? Most likely will continue if you date her. I mean it sounds like you're already having a hard time dealing with her drama now, I don't think dating her is going to make it go away. Can you imagine if you were dating and had another female friend you spent time with - this girl would probably accuse you of cheating on her! Are you ready to deal with that on a dating level?

From my personal experience - I avoid drama.

[Totus Tuus]

Since she's kind of unstable I wouldn't just cut the relationship right off, but I think what would benefit both of you most is beginning to distance yourself. Having territorial issues with you is clearly not good for her, and you flirting with the possibility of falling in love with her under these circumstances is clearly not good for you. I would say back off, but don't go cold turkey. Just my .02.


And p.s., I got the impression that her "high standards" simply equate to the fact that she only hangs out with people who can put up with her.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Totus Tuus

[rachael]

I don't think it's healthy, and you sound like you don't know what you truly want. I think you should distance yourself from her.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1291304487' post='2190364']
Yeah. She has extremely high standards of who she considers a friend. Until recently she always used the neutral term of 'relationship' between us. We did have a relation, but it hadn't reached the level of friendship (by which she means life long friendship, almost on the level of family). She's begun to use the term friend but I'm still used to using her term. But she's used that term within the time frame she made the dating comment.

Just to clarify. Thank you for your advice. We have Christmas break coming up. So we will be spending time apart in the near future. I'm not sure what this will mean though. Why do you think this will help? Because it will allow time for objectivity and reflection? Or do you have something else in mind?

Also, what do you mean by, "honestly it sounds like you might be connected to her on an emotional level"?
[/quote]

I missed your reply earlier. I truly think it would help (having been in a similar situation with someone I am now good friends with) I expressed to him that I wanted to keep the friendship but that I felt this constant time together and the bickering might ruin that so I asked for some distance which he agreed to. We went from speaking/seeing each other about three to four times a day to talking about twice a week. Right now we are good friends who can joke about lots of things. He is dating and he had no problem with me spending time with other guys (which he would get extremely jealous over before) So what I am trying to say is by spending less time together, it will allow you to be objective and it will also allow things to be clearer. It seems to me that with all this time spent with you she is thinks she has the "right" to question you about your female friends. It sounds like she has other male friends and I gather she is not as territorial with them.

Regarding my statement about being connected to her, I said that because you said something about not wanting to end things. So what I gather from that is either 1) you enjoy her company and want to be her friend (which was the case with my friend) or 2) a part of you cares for her to the point that you are not willing to end the friendship even if it is the best thing.

In the end it is of course your decision but from what I read, I think some time apart and a chance to clearly sort things out.

Good Luck!
HB

[Semper Catholic]

Dude you just wrote 2 pages about a girl who is not even your girlfriend. She's playing mind games and you're all over it.

Girls like this basically just want and like attention. She won't date one guy because she likes getting attention from lots of guys.

These types of girls are nightmares to date, absolutely nightmares. To be honest she's not even "friend" material. Girls who play games get the boot.

[4588686]

Thank you everyone who has responded so far. If anyone has any more advice I'd like to see it because I haven't made up my mind yet. But I'll try to respond to everyone by the end of today.

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1291312708' post='2190391']
Dude you just wrote 2 pages about a girl who is not even your girlfriend. She's playing mind games and you're all over it.

Girls like this basically just want and like attention. She won't date one guy because she likes getting attention from lots of guys.

These types of girls are nightmares to date, absolutely nightmares. To be honest she's not even "friend" material. Girls who play games get the boot.
[/quote]


This speaks to me. I think you're right. Although it's a shame because we've had some great times.

As a general development

I had to meet with the person who runs this program we are both in. He asked if we were dating, for whatever reason. I let her know that he asked this because it seemed like the right thing to do. She texted to ask what for more details. Which means she's going to turn it into something dramatic. Which will then feed into us talking about us for the next few hours, So I'm not responding. I gave her a heads up because it seemed like the right thing to do but I don't feel obligated to do anything beyond that. I'm tired and really don't feel like dealing with her right now.

Everyone seems to be on the same page and it pretty much confirms what I've been feeling for a while. So, that's a pretty solid consensus and a pretty good indication of what needs to happen.

Thanks everyone.

[Seven77]

i'm a dude. your lovely friend seems unstable. stock up on some holy water and blessed salt and you should be good.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvh_JAQdbWQ[/media]