Consecrated Virginity

[Shana]

Has anyone else out there thought about or are discerning now consecrated virginity?

[OnlySunshine]

When I was still discerning, I thought about it for a while, but I don't feel called to that life. I read many documents about it and it's beautiful, though.

[DevotedtoHim]

My diocese doesn't allow it! (Los Angeles) it might be an option for me, but I would have to move. I've read some stuff on it, mostly from the more recent meetings. It seems like they really clarified that one has to be a physical virgin which I am still trying to understand, especially since I have met two CV's who were not virgins in the physical sense, and I guess I think this rule (to me) sort of negates the profound process of Confession and absolution!!! I'm a virgin in every sense, but I don't like the idea that others who may have had a conversion (or made a mistake) face possible discrimination. Just my opinion.

Katherine

[sistersintigo]

Please do continue this thread, AND/BUT tread very gently. Previous threads on this topic have been locked down because debate became too heated....God bless.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='sistersintigo' timestamp='1291295223' post='2190339']
Please do continue this thread, AND/BUT tread very gently. Previous threads on this topic have been locked down because debate became too heated....God bless.
[/quote]
Really? I've been on the boards for a while (4 years I think?) ... and the threads that were closed were usually due to other issues not specifically pertaining to the topic of CVs. So as long as there is charity chat on .

[SponsaChristi]

[quote name='DevotedtoHim' timestamp='1291277427' post='2190321']
My diocese doesn't allow it! (Los Angeles) it might be an option for me, but I would have to move. I've read some stuff on it, mostly from the more recent meetings. It seems like they really clarified that one has to be a physical virgin which I am still trying to understand, especially since I have met two CV's who were not virgins in the physical sense, and I guess I think this rule (to me) sort of negates the profound process of Confession and absolution!!! I'm a virgin in every sense, but I don't like the idea that others who may have had a conversion (or made a mistake) face possible discrimination. Just my opinion.

Katherine
[/quote]

Dear Katherine,

our church has so many different vocations - and there is this only one that requires a woman to be a virgin in the physical sense... When one door closes (because you are not what you are suposed to be), many other doors will open... No woman has "a right" te receive the consecration - it is grace! Similar: The fact that you are a man doesn´t mean that you can become priest! There are many seminarian friends of mine who hadn´t been ordained although they desperately longed for it...

As a consecrated virgin from Germany, I had the grace to meet Cardinal R. l. Burke who used to be episcopal moderator of the United States Virgins. And he also stated that a woman is consecrated AS a virgin (a virgin reveives the consecration) - she doesn´t "BECOME" (in this sense) a virgin. She has to BE it.

For a better understanding, a look ob this blog could help:
=> http://doihaveavocation.com/blog/archives/136 (Part 1)
[i]"Q. May a “renewed virgin” receive the consecration?
A. A female who has voluntarily and completely experienced sexual pleasure is not eligible for the consecration, for she cannot offer God physical virginity. As St. Jerome put it, in his twenty-second Epistle to St. Eustochium, n. 5 (P.L., XXII, 397), “I tell you without hesitation that though God is almighty, He cannot restore a virginity that has been lost.” Although generous repentance may restore “spiritual” virginity, physical virginity cannot be restored, and both physical and spiritual virginity are required for a valid consecration."[/i]

=> http://doihaveavocation.com/blog/archives/343 (Part 2)

The consecrated virgins from the USA also offer many information on this side:
http://www.consecratedvirgins.org/welcome.html

--------------

You can confess what you have done wrong, your sins - but that doesn´t restore your virginity.

From http://www.consecratedvirgins.org/q-a/qa-d.html :
" * Is physical virginity necessary in order to receive the Consecration of a Virgin?

Yes. Can someone offer to God what she does not have?"

And this is the point! Again - there are so many and different vocations... you can always make a private vow or something like this with the promise that from this time on you will be devoted only to him... It is not the consecration of virgins, but you can´t pretend to be something that is not the case... A virgin has always been a women who has never voluntarily and completely experienced sexual pleasure... Always! Why should the church today should have chanced that?

--------------

You even speak of "possible discrimination" - but then the fact that women can´t be ordained would be discrimination as well, would´n it?

---------------

Again from http://doihaveavocation.com/blog/archives/136
[i]Q. The Rite of Consecration says that a person must never been married, nor have publicly or openly violated chastity. I secretly had a one night stand that nobody knows about 20 years ago. Can I receive the consecration?
A. While it is true that you weren’t married nor lived in public or open violation of chastity (as in the case of cohabiting), your virginity was lost in the one night stand and thus you are unable to validly receive the consecration. Perhaps some other vocational options are available for your prayerful discernment and consideration.
[/i]

I really can´t remember why the other threads about CV´s have been closed...

God bless you on you way to HIM! :-)

[bmb144]

I don't mean to stir the pot but what about women who have had to have their virginity broken medically and not through physical means. Hymen imperfecta that causes problems with certain natural female physical functions usually leads to the hymen being cut by a scalpel. In no way has the woman's virginity been removed by a "pleasurable experience"....having had to go through it when I was 14 years old, I can bluntly say that it was [b]anything[/b] but pleasurable... Where would a women who has been through such an experience stand, particularly if she has remained a virgin in every other way?

Edited December 3, 2010 by In His Light

[abrideofChrist]

[quote name='In His Light' timestamp='1291338766' post='2190499']
I don't mean to stir the pot but what about women who have had to have their virginity broken medically and not through physical means. Hymen imperfecta that causes problems with certain natural female physical functions usually leads to the hymen being cut by a scalpel. In no way has the woman's virginity been removed by a "pleasurable experience"....having had to go through it when I was 14 years old, I can bluntly say that it was [b]anything[/b] but pleasurable... Where would a women who has been through such an experience stand, particularly if she has remained a virgin in every other way?
[/quote]

Virginity is lost only by voluntary sexual intercourse. Necessary medical procedures do not fall under that category. Only fornication and adultery do. God bless you.

Edited December 3, 2010 by abrideofChrist

[bmb144]

Thanks that clarified that point.

[Chiquitunga]

Something I wanted to add here .. there are also such things as private vows .. and one could make a private vow of virginity to a confessor. I know St. Teresa of the Andes did this. And I remember reading somewhere on discerning the vocation to become a CV, that one ought to have lived this out in a private vow first for a numbers of years I think .. though that could have just been a recommendation.

I have thought of this vocation myself, but I am pretty sure the Lord wants me in religious life and in a community. But if for some reason that can't happen, like I get into a car accident and become paralyzed, etc. God forbid, but whatever is His will .. I will definitely be looking into this.

I know a couple CVs personally. The one told me the consecration by the Bishop is powerful! and there are many graces that come with it ..

Edited December 3, 2010 by Chiquitunga

[TradMom]

+Praised be Jesus Christ!

This isssue has confounded me as I also know - personally!!! - Consecrated Virgins were not Virgins in the physical sense. In fact, one was consecrated in a northeast American Church - publicly - by the Cardinal, and she has children (but obviously did not remarry and the kids are older).

I also know two nuns who received the FULL ancient Rite of being Consecrated Virgins, and both were VERY open about not being Virgins in the physical sense.

The nuns received this grace before the last meeting - so I am aware the rules were clarified.

The mother received her grace of a Vocation two months ago. (meaning she was Consecrated 2 months ago)

And not to be absurd, but I do wonder...are lesbians eligible for this state in life? Does sexual intercourse between women, which most likely cannot be considered "sexual intercourse" count? Somebody in our Church hall asked me and didn't have the nerve to write in! I do!

I do hope this thread continues. Not to always be on Katherine's side ALL the time, but I do understand her thoughts.

Pax,
TradMom

Edited December 3, 2010 by TradMom

[SponsaChristi]

[quote name='abrideofChrist' timestamp='1291343979' post='2190530']
Virginity is lost only by voluntary sexual intercourse. Necessary medical procedures do not fall under that category. Only fornication and adultery do. God bless you.
[/quote]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that... Thank you for adding...

Edited December 3, 2010 by SponsaChristi

[SponsaChristi]

[quote name='TradMom' timestamp='1291360891' post='2190585']
+Praised be Jesus Christ!

This isssue has confounded me as I also know - personally!!! - Consecrated Virgins were not Virgins in the physical sense. In fact, one was consecrated in a northeast American Church - publicly - by the Cardinal, and she has children (but obviously did not remarry and the kids are older).

I also know two nuns who received the FULL ancient Rite of being Consecrated Virgins, and both were VERY open about not being Virgins in the physical sense.

The nuns received this grace before the last meeting - so I am aware the rules were clarified.

The mother received her grace of a Vocation two months ago. (meaning she was Consecrated 2 months ago)

And not to be absurd, but I do wonder...are lesbians eligible for this state in life? Does sexual intercourse between women, which most likely cannot be considered "sexual intercourse" count? Somebody in our Church hall asked me and didn't have the nerve to write in! I do!

I do hope this thread continues. Not to always be on Katherine's side ALL the time, but I do understand her thoughts.

Pax,
TradMom
[/quote]


I know that ancient orders normally leave the "choice" for the candidates to either receive the consecration of virgins - and if this is not possible because they are not virgins, they may receive the monastic consecration (I don´t know the correct term in English) - a rite which resembles the consecration of virgins but doesn´t require the fact of physical virginity - and is often also administered by a bishop or cardinal - mostly on the day of the solemn profession.

The question if the candidate is a virgin in the mentioned sense is to be asked during scrutiny (is this the correct word in English?). And the bishop/cardinal must have known that is not valid when the fact of virginity is not fulfilled...

Edited December 3, 2010 by SponsaChristi

[ontherock4good]

[quote name='SponsaChristi' timestamp='1291364795' post='2190592']
I know that ancient orders normally leave the "choice" for the candidates to either receive the consecration of virgins - and if this is not possible because they are not virgins, they may receive the monastic consecration (I don´t know the correct term in English) - a rite which resembles the consecration of virgins but doesn´t require the fact of physical virginity - and is often also administered by a bishop or cardinal - mostly on the day of the solemn profession.

The question if the candidate is a virgin in the mentioned sense is to be asked during scrutiny (is this the correct word in English?). And the bishop/cardinal must have known that is not valid when the fact of virginity is not fulfilled...
[/quote]

Another point/question on this topic. In studying the vow of chastity, it became apparent to me that the term "virginity" in the strict sense, according to the Church, is defined as being broken whenever one has voluntarily experienced ... how do I say this delicately ... sexual pleasure. This means that intercourse is not the only way to lose one's virginity.

I always thought of consecrated virginity as something that was from that point on, not necessarily that a person was always a virgin (esp. in this culture) - I mean look at Mary Magdalene. Of course, I don't know what all the requirements are, but that was my understanding...

[abrideofChrist]

This is one area in which the vocations of consecrated virginity and religious life differ. Consecrated virginity requires as valid "matter" a woman who has not had voluntary sexual experience (fornication, the marital act, or adultery) and one has had to have been always a virgin. Not all sins invalidate the woman's eligibility for the consecration; just the completed conjugal act (in marriage or out). Consecrated religious life requires a vow of chastity that one will abstain from all sexual experience (including impure thoughts, words, and actions) from that time forward irrespective of one's sexual experience prior to making that vow.


[quote name='ontherock4good' timestamp='1291583201' post='2191084']
Another point/question on this topic. In studying the vow of chastity, it became apparent to me that the term "virginity" in the strict sense, according to the Church, is defined as being broken whenever one has voluntarily experienced ... how do I say this delicately ... sexual pleasure. This means that intercourse is not the only way to lose one's virginity.

I always thought of consecrated virginity as something that was from that point on, not necessarily that a person was always a virgin (esp. in this culture) - I mean look at Mary Magdalene. Of course, I don't know what all the requirements are, but that was my understanding...
[/quote]