Should Teenagers Be Allowed To Enter Into Courtship?

[tinytherese]

This is based off of the dating or courting thread from a long time ago that somehow got bumped up rather recently. I thought that it would be more appropriate to specifically discuss aspect of the issue.

So, should teenagers enter into courtship meaning dating with the intention of possibly getting married and discerning marriage with someone? (I apologize if this definition needs clarification. I know that the terms courtship and dating can be interpreted in many different ways.)

I've just noticed that as a whole, middle school and high school kids just don't understand what love even is and are immature. Many of them (but not all) date for the sake of dating and or because "Everyone else is doing it." [i]I'm not saying that dating because of any or both of these reasons is a sin.[/i][b][/b][u][/u] I know that that was an issue that some people had in the other thread when discussing this with others. Yes, there are people who end up marrying their high school sweethearts, but from what I have noticed they are the exception not the rule. Few people end up marrying their high school sweethearts. The majority of people meet their spouses in college or sometime afterwards (which is a very broad range I know.)

I know that decades ago people in our nation tended to get married much younger than they do now. Part of that is because of the baby boom where everybody was pairing off since anyone who wasn't married was considered a freak, another part of that is because people tend to focus on their education and getting ready for their careers, while others are commitment phobic or conditioned to just not be mature until later on. (How many mature 18 year olds do you seriously know? From my experience they are rare.)

I know that one point I've heard brought up before is that it just isn't practical to start dating at say 16 and wait 6 years or so to finally tie the knot. I know that people bring up what St. Paul says about chastity being difficult and that it is "better to marry than to burn." I mean sure, we need to learn to have self-control, but the longer we wait, the harder it certainly becomes. How many teenagers know how to properly discern marriage in a mature manner? People personality wise change a lot especially during the teens and don't know who they are yet. Teen relationships are usually not known to last for very long. There are some (but certainly not all) teen relationships that do last a really long time but they may just be together out of routine or figure that they don't want to start over again with someone new after all of the emotional baggage they've shared with the other person, so unless something really awful in the relationship happens like one of them cheats they just stay together. (I'm aware of the fact that this can happen not only for teens, but they seem to be especially vulnerable to this because they don't figure that they will get married for several years.) And just because a couple stays together for a very long time doesn't mean that they will get married or that they will stay married. I heard of a couple who was together for 10 years and got married. A year later they were divorced. I also had two classmates in high school who started seeing each other in 6th grade and in 11th they broke up.

I know that one trend not only in Catholic circles, but in Protestant ones as well is to have say an 8 month courtship and then get engaged. According to sociological research couples that get married 18 to 24 months after meeting each other have the most successful and happy marriages. (I know that we shouldn't base everything we do off of statistics, but they can help us at least when making decisions.)

So what do people in the phamily think?

[Tally Marx]

Personally?
I don't think anyone should date unless they are considering marriage. To date for the purpose of recreation, I find, is just plain silly. Relationships are not games. And pretending that they are will only breed immaturity and low opinion of relationships. One should only date if they are discerning marriage. Anything less is just friendship.

That said... what age should one be allowed to date for the purpose of discerning marriage (hence forth referred to as "courtship")? I honestly don't know, though I would say no younger than sixteen. I have not met any young teenagers mature enough to understand a relationship, even those thirteen-fourteen year olds who could quote TOB and [i]Gaudium et spes[/i]. I have, however, been fortunate enough to meet many mature and responsible sixteen-eighteen year olds (mostly homeschoolers). Many sixteen-eighteen year olds are not mature enough to maintain a relationship, I know. But this is the age that they learn how and are capable of understanding the purpose of a relationship.
You say that most highschool sweethearts don't get married, and those marriages don't last. I agree. However, I don't think it's because they began courting in highschool. I think it's because it's their first relationship. I don't think any first relationship will last-- whether it's begun in highschool or college or afterward. A person can be very mature, but not have the selflessness or love to maintain a relationship. I think this can only be learned in a relationship. And I think it takes a while to learn, also.
So, they can learn about relationships for four to six years, beginning when they are eighteen and finally getting it when they are twenty-four (which, statistics say, is the best age to marry). Or they can begin to learn about relationships when they are twenty-four, and finally get it at thirty.

I look at kids these days, and marriages, and I know something is wrong. I once thought that that's because the kids began courting too young. Now, I don't think that's the problem. After all, my grandmother met my grandfather at fourteen and married him at sixteen and a more successful marriage there could not have been. Are teens incapable of being mature? No. They can be. But our society doesn't encourage them to be. So, it's not that these kids (16-18) are too young to court. It's that they don't know what courting is. They settle for the more shallow, utilitarian dating. They aren't taught what a relationship is supposed to be. So they can't have one. And pushing back the age at which they can begin to learn won't help ignorance. You'll go from having young, immature kids to old, immature adults.

But, I am no expert. That's just my opinion.

Pax,
~Tally

[CatherineM]

I also think dating should be postponed if for no other reason than to take some of the stress out of teenage years. I think 18 year-olds are capable of making mature life-time commitments. That's not the problem. 50+ years ago, average teenagers could get a job that would allow them to support a family. That's not the case today.

[TeresaBenedicta]

I have quite a few friends who married their high school sweethearts. And I graduated high school in 2007. But, almost all of them were practicing and devout Christians.

[mommas_boy]

Case-by-case basis. Myself, I wasn't mature enough to handle courtship until I was 21-22. Others, it is possible that it could be much younger for them. The important part is instilling values into kids and teens so that they see the importance of courtship, dating, romance, marriage, etc.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='mommas_boy' timestamp='1291184794' post='2190162']
Case-by-case basis. Myself, I wasn't mature enough to handle courtship until I was 21-22. Others, it is possible that it could be much younger for them. The important part is instilling values into kids and teens so that they see the importance of courtship, dating, romance, marriage, etc.
[/quote]

I agree, it's a case-by-case basis. I have known several couples who were high school sweethearts, and still (happily) married.

My roommate in college met her future husband her freshman year of college. However, they did not get married until my roomate had gotten her teaching certificate and begun working, since her husband-to-be was still in grad school getting his PhD.

My sister met my BIL her first or second week of college and has been with him ever since. However, like my roomate, because my BIL was working toward his PhD, they did not get married until my sister had finished her master's and gotten a job.

However, I see all these as exceptions. And, personally, I think some "non-courtship" dating often helps a young man or woman better understand themselves, and what they are looking for in a spouse. So, I personally, don't think non-courtship dating is necessarily a waste of time. I do get concerned when I see 13 and 14 year olds "dating." (Although, in many cases, what they consider dating is walking to class with each other and hanging around together. In many cases, it is quite innocent--but unforunately, in many cases it isn't innocent. Even if 13 or 14 year old thinks they are old enough to date, they normally aren't. Although, I see no problem if they are part of "group dates" or "dates" that consist of attending church functions geared to teens.) At least in my high school, a lot of people (especially guys) weren't ready to date in high school, but did date in college (and very often met their future spouses there).

I also have known people (usually men) who weren't ready to handle courtship until they were 40. Seriously. Before 40, they had friends, but didn't seriously "date." But, then, something suddenly changed, and they found themselves wanting very much to get married. The 3 or 4 men I have known who were like this, usually married at woman at least 10 years younger, because they wanted to have children.

Guidelines and general rules are necessary, but, in real life, people are VERY different from each other, and hard and fast rules don't necessarily apply.

BTW--In response to earlier comments about the ideal length of courtship, my experience has been that it varies by age. People who meet their future spouses at an early age usually have longer courtships to finish colllege and/or grad school, and ideally at least one of the spouses gets a job. And, I think younger people need the extra time to get to know themselves and their future spouses better. The 20's are a decade where many people change a lot as they learn more about themselves.

I think shorter courtships are not inappropriate when the couple is older--at least in their 30's. I have several friends who married in their 30's or early 40's who had nine-month courtships, and they are all still married. But, most people know themselves, and what they want from life and from a spouse much better when they are in their 30's or older, so they can discern more quickly "the right one."

However, I personally favor the idea that a couple should date seriously, that is, a courtship for at least a year--as the saying goes, "to summer and winter together" before getting married. A year might still be too short for many younger couples, but at minimum, it gives the couple a chance to see each other in all sorts of good or bad circumstances--sick with a cold, stressed from starting a new job, etc.

I remember when I was in college, hearing a story about an engaged couple at a conservative Christian school where the guy had never seen his future wife with no make-up, messy hair, and dressed very casually. (All students lived in single-sex dorms, and students of the opposite sex could only meet in the public area of the lobby.) That was the opposite of my college experience, where it was rare for a guy I was dating to see me WITH make-up since we usually dressed very casually. About the only time a guy saw me at least somewhat dressed up was at church. (For financial reasons, expensive, fancy dates were out of the question, and I wasn't in a sorority, so never had reason (or interest) in attending a formal dance.)

Edited December 1, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Sarah147]

I give the same answer I gave in the other courting/dating thread.

As for age, it depends on the culture, time and place. The Blessed Virgin, Mary, was 14 years old. It was God's Will for her as a teen.

Some are so poor in some countries, it's just the way they live, as far as marrying young. Some die very early from illness, so they marry early.

Even in America, I know of some big family, Catholic, homeschooled people that were very mature and were already discerning marriage after discernment to the Religious Life turned to marriage discernment. It depends on the person, really. But I think they should have finished high school idealy, and already know if they are a one-working parent family, or if they need to get a college career before marriage.

It's sort of a "your young and need time to discern what you are called to" vs. "the longer you're in the world, the more corrupt and stuck in your ways you could become, so maybe entering into something sooner is better."

Edited December 4, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='mommas_boy' timestamp='1291184794' post='2190162']
Case-by-case basis. Myself, I wasn't mature enough to handle courtship until I was 21-22. Others, it is possible that it could be much younger for them. The important part is instilling values into kids and teens so that they see the importance of courtship, dating, romance, marriage, etc.
[/quote]
My parents started dating at 16 and got married at 21 and are still happily married. I definitely wasn't ready for such a relationship at that age. My husband and I started dating just before I turned 22, and we were ready at that point, but I don't know that I would've been ready prior to that.

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm nineteen years old now, and I know who I am going to marry.
I'm also glad (to a certain extent) that I did date in high school. Made my mistakes early. Luckily the mistakes were never too bad. Is everyone mature enough to learn from their not-so-good relationships? I dunno. I was. I took some good lessons out of that, and it's made a great difference. Mostly I learned what kinds of people to stay away from at all costs.

[Jesus_lol]

Thank God most people dont marry their highschool sweethearts, because for the most parts those relationships are completely retarded and co dependant and neither party is half as mature as they first look(no matter how small a thing is, you can always cut it in half, particle physics notwithstanding.)

And thats why i think teenagers should date for the sake of dating. there is nothing wrong with that. mistakes are made, feelings are hurt, people grow up. or not, that is life. most people could use some of that.

without that experience you get adults acting like 13 year olds, the first boy/girl that goes out with them is the "love of their life" and "no one else could possibly love each other as we do, what we have is unique, they dont understand". cute, yes. naive, yes. Fine for a teenager to deal with, with their friends and family eyerolling? yes. Fine for someone marrying the first person that comes along? nope.

some people get lucky and find true love with their first relationship. but most of us arent that lucky.



this is completely disregarding one of the most basic rules(right behind gravity) in the universe: If you expressly forbid your teenager to do something, they will run in the opposite direction and step it up a few notches just to screw with you.

[MIKolbe]

I married my high school sweetheart.

[MIKolbe]

I married my high school sweetheart.

[Ephrem Augustine]

We have a marriage problem in this country, and too many kids are growing up in broken homes...
they are also growing up thinking adults divorce for arbitrary reasons... they are also growing up with broken hearts too early, and putting too much hope in immature relationships.

Some kids might find a good example of a committed and loving relationship, and may more likely succeed.
I think that young people would be open to some sort of structured idea or direction in what to do in a relationship more than people believe. (as long as it is more practical then merely a finger wagging against pre marital sex).

In a perfect world, a father teachers his kids a lot about love, by putting his wife's needs above his own (not because she pressures him to, but because he does so willingly). they would see their father express "i love you" frequently. they would see him embrace his wife when he gets home from work. they would see them not keeping tally on points... sure he would watch the game sometimes, but also offer to take care of the kids on few occasions to give her a day or weekend off.

so if a young man grows up with a good father like that, i think we have a lot of good reasons to believe he might be good at courting already as a teenager.

[Ed Normile]

Heck it was good enough for the Virgin Mary, although I doubt she dated. I feel that dating places one in the near occasion of sin, especially in this age of sex obsession. You can not watch the TV or go to a movie that someone is not making out, they pass out condoms to the kiddies in school and teach them sex ed as if to say you are going to do this if you are normal, so let us show you what is acceptable. My girl is engaged to be married, she never dated, when she met the man she is going to marry they went out with a chaperone, you know, some one to be present so they would not be alone, its an old fashioned irish idea, watch the movie The Quiet Man to get a handle on this practise. Then when they decided to make the commitment and become engaged they seen a priest and are going through pre-cana. Pray for them as a couple, as they pray for each other and as we pray for them too. I guess what I am saying is entered into with the end result being the desire to be chaste until marriage while taking the precautions to ensure that outcome and with a strong faith base it could not be bad, but this hook up mentality that is promoted these days means one should be wary.

This is my girl annmarie, yes its one name not two! She gets pretty mad when anyone seperates it. She is my love, I am going to miss her, I can not wait until she brings us grandbabies!
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3410/4619476803_e2c886fc64_z.jpg[/img]

ed

[Archaeology cat]

That's wonderful, Ed. I'll say a prayer for them.