Strictest Carmelite Convents In The U.s.?

[TradMom]

+ Praised be Jesus Christ!

Yes, the Carmel in Danvers is [i][b]very[/b][/i] traditional and very, very lovely. I am very blessed by their presence in our world. Here is a 2008 article, and I believe you will see indeed how very traditional and strict they are.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/danvers/news/lifestyle/x512362343/Carmelites-share-50-years-of-faith-and-love

Pax!

TradMom

[Chapel Rat]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1291146632' post='2190053']
Hola, Chapel Rat! (I'm definitely one of those, by the way, lol) Thanks for your post! That's interesting about the difference you felt .. and how you had a hard time putting it into words .. Personally, I like the Spanish Carmels the best .. but at the same time, I love the greater emphasize on solitude in the French Carmels .. so I'm undecided Whatever God wants in the end!

You must be talking about the Carmel in Des Plaines, IL here. They are very strict/traditional too .. of the 1990 Constitutions. Have you ever been there for the Latin Mass on First Saturdays? It is beautiful and the nuns sing throughout it (it's been going on for years too, well before the MP in 2007) I know a young woman who entered there this past July .. she must be a Novice by now. That's amazing that some from your parish walk there overnight!! Wow, my goodness .. ..

P.S. Ah, I just found an old thread of yours asking about this very thing! [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=109195"]http://www.phatmass....howtopic=109195[/url] Sorry no one replied to it! It got lost in Open Mic! I shall send you a PM!
[/quote]

Hola! The Lord answered my question in His time and His way. Thanks for all your help!

Yes, I'm speaking about the Des Plaines Carmel. The first time I went to visit and saw the double grille, I wanted to run out of there. Yet, the Holy Spirit gave me the courage to call. I've met the Prioress and Sub-prioress, who are so nice and welcoming. I spoke to a priest and told him that I was afraid of entering a strict Carmel because of my fears of not being able to make it. He reassured me that I'll make it wherever I am called. He said that it's "pretty much learning to put up with each other."

I haven't had a chance to make it for the Latin Mass. I try to go to their daily Mass, when I can. I belive I've caught a glimpse of the person you know during Mass. I don't believe she is a novice just yet. They do have a novice there that recently made her first vows this September. You're right they are very traditional and strict. I spoke to a priest and told him that I was afraid of entering a strict Carmel and feeling like I won't make it. He told me that I'll make it wherever God calls me to.

I'm with you, I personally like the Spanish Carmels, but I do like the simplicity of the French Carmels, it's a great reminder of being in the desert.

I've tried to get off the Carmel discernment train so many times, but Jesus is so persistent and patient with me:console: . I've told Our Lady "It's your Order, Mama so it's your decision not mine."

[DevotedtoHim]

I "feel" like the Salt Lake City and Buffalo Carmels are the most strict! My opinion only. I would not put Boston in that category - also isn't there a super strict Carmel in Seattle or somewhere!?

Katherine

Edited December 2, 2010 by DevotedtoHim

[carmelite15]

OHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! my gosh you guys the carmelites in Danvers is the same Carmel on 20/20 remember?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgKKuTCS-gw&feature=related[/media]

[In The Arms of The Lord]

[quote name='carmelite15' timestamp='1291281024' post='2190323']
OHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! my gosh you guys the carmelites in Danvers is the same Carmel on 20/20 remember?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgKKuTCS-gw&feature=related[/media]
[/quote]


I must have watched this so many times in the past two years! At the end of the show, they do show how one of the discerners they followed entered Carmel. I always wondered about the other women; if they perhaps entered the religious life later on.

[krissylou]

[quote name='In The Arms of The Lord' timestamp='1291400815' post='2190749']
I must have watched this so many times in the past two years! At the end of the show, they do show how one of the discerners they followed entered Carmel. I always wondered about the other women; if they perhaps entered the religious life later on.
[/quote]

Aha. I can provide info! The Cistercians (Trappistines) are my retreat spot of choice so I have some familiarity with this community.

The Trappistines were annoyed by that for a variety of reasons. First of all, they and the Poor Clares are both excellent but have very different spiritualities. I think the Cistercians are not as "weird" as the Poor Clares. And "weird" sells. These differences were totally lost and 20/20 made everybody sound like the Poor Clares. So we see Trappistines talking about long-since abandoned practices of austerity -- and it's quite odd indeed to be including reflections of what they did fifty years ago rather than what their life is like now!!!

(They didn't say they were annoyed. I think they said things like "we found these emphases concerning." I think in nunspeak that means )

But most importantly, the 20/20 people focused their stories on the women who DIDN'T enter and ignored those who did!!! NUTS!

(All this information has been made publicly available by the abbey so I'm not telling any inside info.)

I think there were seven people on that "Monastic Experience Weekend."

Three of the women (including the Welsh one who we saw a fair amount) entered. One left during her novice year and the other two made their simple professions this summer. (They also had another postulant enter at about the same time, although she hadn't come to that particular discernment retreat. She also made her simple profession this summer.)

A fourth joined their Lay Associates.

And there was the one woman who entered the Danvers Carmel.

Not sure whether the other two discerned not to enter religious life or entered elsewhere or what.

I don't know what percentage of entrants is 'normal' for these things but that seems pretty dang high to me!

[linnie]

Have any of you ever visited the Carmelites in Salt Lake? a young woman from our parish is entering there next summer

http://www.carmelslc.org

Edited December 4, 2010 by linnie

[Antoniette]

Well, there was no question it WAS Brooklyn, probably the strictest in the world. Their own strictness, not really supported by others helped do them in.

There were a lot of reasons which eventually lead to their closing. Mother Jeanne Marie Ange, one of the last prioresses and novice mistresses, died at Dallas Carmel. She went there because the rule was strictly kept-mind this was prior to the Tridentine Carmels at Valparaiso and Elysburg. Buffalo graciously received 3 nuns from Brooklyn, but they died before the re-foundation. In my opinion, Buffalo is one of the best. One of the nuns currently there was associated with original Brooklyn. Brooklyn now is indeed very strict, they could use more postulants; but one must remember it is an urban Carmel. It is next to a large wooded park, which while buccolic looking is quite well used for parties and barbecues in the summer.

Truthfully though, Brooklyn is a great traditional house- I hope they eventually go Tridentine, as it would just seem to suit them. I went to the solemn profession of a sister there, very beautiful and moving.

philadelphia, hosts occasional Tridentine masses, and the prioress is wonderful.

But, I think Brooklyn is a special place, worth investigating, with special respect to all the wonderful Carmels mentioned above. Incidentally, the last sister from original Brooklyn, Sr. Maria is still praying for us at St. Helens Carmel in England.

Antoniette

[krissylou]

[quote name='Antoniette' timestamp='1292120927' post='2192257']
Well, there was no question it WAS Brooklyn, probably the strictest in the world. Their own strictness, not really supported by others helped do them in.

There were a lot of reasons which eventually lead to their closing. Mother Jeanne Marie Ange, one of the last prioresses and novice mistresses, died at Dallas Carmel. She went there because the rule was strictly kept-mind this was prior to the Tridentine Carmels at Valparaiso and Elysburg. Buffalo graciously received 3 nuns from Brooklyn, but they died before the re-foundation. In my opinion, Buffalo is one of the best. One of the nuns currently there was associated with original Brooklyn. Brooklyn now is indeed very strict, they could use more postulants; but one must remember it is an urban Carmel. It is next to a large wooded park, which while buccolic looking is quite well used for parties and barbecues in the summer.

Truthfully though, Brooklyn is a great traditional house- I hope they eventually go Tridentine, as it would just seem to suit them. I went to the solemn profession of a sister there, very beautiful and moving.

philadelphia, hosts occasional Tridentine masses, and the prioress is wonderful.

But, I think Brooklyn is a special place, worth investigating, with special respect to all the wonderful Carmels mentioned above. Incidentally, the last sister from original Brooklyn, Sr. Maria is still praying for us at St. Helens Carmel in England.

Antoniette
[/quote]

As someone "on the outside" -- I think urban Carmels are great.

I live in Boston, and there is a Carmel in a *really* rough part of the city. They came 100+ years ago, when things were different, and then as the neighborhood turned -- they stayed. People get shot on the streets not terribly far away.

Is there a place that is more in need of prayer???

I do understand the attraction of squirrelling yourself away in quiet, and that's what many people seeking Carmel are called to, and of course they're praying for all the rest of us wherever we are.

But I would hope that SOME people who are called to the contemplative life might even seek out the urban monasteries, where yes there is more noise but the grace and peace of Christ are so very needed!

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1290946622' post='2189648']
Personally, I'm looking more for the LEAST strict Carmelite convent in the U.S. I don't need a "Ritz Carmel," but maybe along the lines of a Hyatt. When I'm in really bad pain, I can't think, much less pray.

Wait, what am I thinking? Even in a plush Carmel, I have the least Carmelite sprituality of anyone I know. They'd kick me out, even if I didn't complain about the beds being too hard and the fact that I look terrible in brown.

But, the solitude and quiet, and the singing and chanting sound wonderful. (I wonder if they'd have any chairs with backs, and maybe even a cushion.)

Carmel is not for me. I need a Community that's Ignatian in spirituality (with some Dominican thrown in), has a huge library, lets me bring my cats (they are both chronically ill, but wonderful, and, as helpless creatures, my vow to my cats is one of my vows to God), and understands that, if I can't get up at 5:00 am, it's not because I love God any less.

Not gonna happen. Rough quote from "This House of Brede," something like, "For those in the infirmary, their sickness is their prayer." I liked that. God not only watches over the strong, but the weak, too. And, someone has to keep the home fires burning.
[/quote]



I of L!!! You got a good point...Actually, you might think you prefer the LEast Strictest of religious life, but I think you got it: right. on the CRAZY DOT [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif[/img] : to associate/commiserate with the suffering and the lowly and the misunderstood and the simple is one of the Strictest Laws, Narrow Paths, that Our Lord spoke of, hence we cannot enter the kingdom if we cannot be as children (and their sincere nature is exactly: hidden, easily overlooked, lowly, underestimated, etc.). and we cannot enter the kingdom if we don't understand what it's like to be poor and in need of charity and consolation "Come, all you who are blessed by the Father, possess the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For when I was hungry, you gave me to eat. when I was thirsty, you gave me to drink. when I was a stranger, you welcomed me. naked, you clothed me. sick, you visited me. imprisoned, you came to me...." (MT. 25)

I dunno, if that made sense....but I do know, I like what you said, and I'M SO HAPPY, I CAME ACROSS IT...because i think i needed to rejoice in something like that, to receive blessings and God's favor on my own discernment...[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/nun1.gif[/img]

...

alright, well...Prayers!

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1290946622' post='2189648']
Personally, I'm looking more for the LEAST strict Carmelite convent in the U.S. I don't need a "Ritz Carmel," but maybe along the lines of a Hyatt. When I'm in really bad pain, I can't think, much less pray.

Wait, what am I thinking? Even in a plush Carmel, I have the least Carmelite sprituality of anyone I know. They'd kick me out, even if I didn't complain about the beds being too hard and the fact that I look terrible in brown.

But, the solitude and quiet, and the singing and chanting sound wonderful. (I wonder if they'd have any chairs with backs, and maybe even a cushion.)

Carmel is not for me. I need a Community that's Ignatian in spirituality (with some Dominican thrown in), has a huge library, lets me bring my cats (they are both chronically ill, but wonderful, and, as helpless creatures, my vow to my cats is one of my vows to God), and understands that, if I can't get up at 5:00 am, it's not because I love God any less.

Not gonna happen. Rough quote from "This House of Brede," something like, "For those in the infirmary, their sickness is their prayer." I liked that. God not only watches over the strong, but the weak, too. And, someone has to keep the home fires burning.
[/quote]



I of L!!! You got a good point...Actually, you might think you prefer the LEast Strictest of religious life, but I think you got it: right. on the CRAZY DOT [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif[/img] : to associate/commiserate with the suffering and the lowly and the misunderstood and the simple is one of the Strictest Laws, Narrow Paths, that Our Lord spoke of, hence we cannot enter the kingdom if we cannot be as children (and their sincere nature is exactly: hidden, easily overlooked, lowly, underestimated, etc.). and we cannot enter the kingdom if we don't understand what it's like to be poor and in need of charity and consolation "Come, all you who are blessed by the Father, possess the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For when I was hungry, you gave me to eat. when I was thirsty, you gave me to drink. when I was a stranger, you welcomed me. naked, you clothed me. sick, you visited me. imprisoned, you came to me...." (MT. 25)

I dunno, if that made sense....but I do know, I like what you said, and I'M SO HAPPY, I CAME ACROSS IT...because i think i needed to rejoice in something like that, to receive blessings and God's favor on my own discernment...[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/nun1.gif[/img]

...

alright, well...Prayers!

[DameAgnes]

[quote name='carmelite15' timestamp='1291281024' post='2190323']
OHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! my gosh you guys the carmelites in Danvers is the same Carmel on 20/20 remember?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgKKuTCS-gw&feature=related[/media]
[/quote]


That video makes me crazy. Diane Sawyer is so fixated on celibacy, and in implying that women only enter cloisters because something is "broken" or "failed" in them - I bet she would never suggest such things to Buddhist nuns. Also, I love how she lectures the nuns on what Jesus did, "surely he would want you out in the world..." They just look at her with such patience, while I was shouting at the screen: "he also went into the desert and prayed...he said Mary chose the better portion!"

Maddening.

[Yaatee]

[quote name='DameAgnes' timestamp='1292200411' post='2192425']
That video makes me crazy. Diane Sawyer is so fixated on celibacy, and in implying that women only enter cloisters because something is "broken" or "failed" in them - I bet she would never suggest such things to Buddhist nuns. Also, I love how she lectures the nuns on what Jesus did, "surely he would want you out in the world..." They just look at her with such patience, while I was shouting at the screen: "he also went into the desert and prayed...he said Mary chose the better portion!"

Maddening.
[/quote]

I think that Diane Sawyer was an idiot in this interview. It was very insulting to all nuns, who showed great forbearance.

[ruso]

The main difference is between the nuns who follow the constitutions of the 90, of Mother Maravillas,
and those that follow the Constitutions of 91.
Here are all the Carmelite convents in USA, and anywhere in the world if you click the map. Which has 3 asterisks, follow the rules of the Mother Maravillas. The number of nuns who follow the constitutions of 1991, around the world, is of 9857 in 756 convents. Of the 1990, they are 1856 in 126 convents. According to the Pontifical yearbook of 2007.


http://www.carmelitasdescalzos.com/index.php?Seccion=americanodir&CodNacion=99

We talked about it two years ago in this thread


http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=58540&hl=maravillas&st=0

Edited December 17, 2010 by ruso