Shame Of The Irish

[Mary]

Ok, for the people that disagree with my belief that Notre Dame was not NECESSARILY in the wrong, HOW do you expect them to try the case to see if he is considered guilty or not guilty? I'm assuming that you believe that he shouldn't just have something taken away from him that he has obviously worked hard on for an indefinite amount of time because someone said he did something that cannot be proven (don't assume that I'm saying he didn't do it, I'm just saying there is no way to know) From what it sounds like, the girl was religious, and it is NOT uncommon at ALL for a girl who is first away at college (keep in mind that this didn't just happened. it happened in the first couple of weeks of school) to do regretful things and blame others if she was religious. Keep in mind, she had also had been battling depression, so that doesn't help either. I'm not saying at all that he didn't do it. I'm just saying that it is definitely not a clear cut case and would not be fair to the player to keep him from playing if nothing can be proven.

[Skinzo]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1292706495' post='2193369']
There is an algorithm that says the longer a debate goes on, the statistical likelihood that someone will bring up Hitler to justify their argument approaches near certainty. You lasted 1 post.


[/quote]

Actually that's known as "Godwin's law". An algorithm is an expression used in mathematics and computer science. It means a computable set of steps to achieve a desired result. Not relevant here, but amusing or perhaps disturbing when it comes from someone about to graduate college.

S.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1292692245' post='2193337']
This is off topic but I'll say it anyway. The above kind of language is really an example of intolerance and a lack of understanding and appreciation for other points of view.

I am against gay marriage. Some liberal people accuse me of wanting to limit the freedom of gay people. But that accusation is a misunderstanding of my point of view. My view is that real freedom for gay people does not include a legal stamp of approval for a lifestyle I believe keeps them in chains. My view is not a statement of wanting to limit the freedom of gay people.

President Obama does not believe that life begins at conception. He does not believe abortion is murder, and has no problem supporting it. His view is blind and wrong. But it is not a statement in support of child murder. I think the fair thing would be to give the man the benefit of the doubt, that if he did believe it was murder, he would not support it.

What Notre Dame definitely should not have done is given the President an honorary law degree. For his understanding of natural law is true suckage, and a Catholic University should refrain from honoring crappy lawyers.
[/quote]


so if someone believes that murdering women is not wrong because women are not even a real person then i should give them the benift of doubt that they are just ignorent and that if they truely understood women were real people, then they would be against murdering them.

your argument has to be one of the worst i have heard on these boards. being ignorent is not an excuse for doing evil. although i guess we catholics should just give abortion doctors the benifit of doubt when they abort babies since they don't think life begins until the baby is born.

[Jesus_lol]

wow, lillabettt, you have a talent for making everyone of your posts about Semper, despite the fact that he is neither the alleged rapist nor the alleged victim in this story. and it would be quite a stretch to assume he is one of the people running Notre Dame who tried to sweep this under the table.

lets reign it in a little bit, m'kay?




how is it, that in the month since i was last here, Semper became the reasonable one?

Edited December 19, 2010 by Jesus_lol

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Skinzo' timestamp='1292799365' post='2193511']
Actually that's known as "Godwin's law". An algorithm is an expression used in mathematics and computer science. It means a computable set of steps to achieve a desired result. Not relevant here, but amusing or perhaps disturbing when it comes from someone about to graduate college.

S.
[/quote]


how do u know im about to graduate college. Is you stalking me?
algorithim/law whatever. a thingy that predicts what happens.
what do you want I have not slept in 39 hours. its called finals, the thing you do when you're about to graduate college.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Lilllabettt

[havok579257]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1292706495' post='2193369']
There is an algorithm that says the longer a debate goes on, the statistical likelihood that someone will bring up Hitler to justify their argument approaches near certainty. You lasted 1 post.

The problem with ideological purity is that it eventually turns you into an arse. All ideologies, followed to their logical conclusion, end in the ridiculous.

Some people believe abortion is murder; they support it
Other people believe abortion is not murder; they think it is something else; they support it.

Some people hate gays, they are against gay rights
Some people don't hate gays, they are against gay rights

If you can't see the difference between those two groups of people, I think that is ridiculous.
[/quote]


supporting abortion is wrong. no matter what you believe. believing life does not begin until the baby is born does not make these people untouchable. they are in the wrong no matter how they justify it. they should not get a bye just because they don't believe its murder.

[Lilllabettt]

@ Jlol: I know semper from another life. I have my reasons for busting on him. but i have not talked about dude in like a number of posts, so you are late in your smackdown.

@ havok: It's not an excuse. It's just a way to see how maybe people who disagree with us about this very important issue are more mistaken than evil. Have you ever been wrong and realized it. I know people who have come around on the abortion issue feel like scales fell from their eyes. They didn't support abortion even though they thought it was murder. For whatever reason they didn't think of it as murder. They didn't see it, k? They were not in favor of murder, they were in favor of something they didn't think of as murder.

That's how they talk about why they supported abortion rights before. Its not like they woke up one day and said "gee, i guess murder is bad afterall. Suppose I should be against abortion then." No. What happened was they said "oh God, abortion IS murder afterall. Dang."

[havok579257]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1292800469' post='2193518']
@ Jlol: I know semper from another life. I have my reasons for busting on him. but i have not talked about dude in like a number of posts, so you are late in your smackdown.

@ havok: It's not an excuse. It's just a way to see how maybe people who disagree with us about this very important issue are more mistaken than evil. Have you ever been wrong and realized it. I know people who have come around on the abortion issue feel like scales fell from their eyes. They didn't support abortion even though they thought it was murder. For whatever reason they didn't think of it as murder. They didn't see it, k? They were not in favor of murder, they were in favor of something they didn't think of as murder.

That's how they talk about why they supported abortion rights before. Its not like they woke up one day and said "gee, i guess murder is bad afterall. Suppose I should be against abortion then." No. What happened was they said "oh God, abortion IS murder afterall. Dang."
[/quote]


except you give obama the benifit of the doubt about his ignorance. unless you know him personally, you have no clue what he actually believes. all we know for a fact is he has lied to the american public and been caught in the lies. so we know he does lie about things. so he well could be lying about this, true?

ok, no matter what he believes, his views are counter to the catholic church and should not be allowed to speak at a catholic college. i mean should we next let satanist who are ignorent of the truth speak at catholic colleges because they have a different point of view and are ignorent to the truth.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1292800469' post='2193518']
@ Jlol: I know semper from another life. I have my reasons for busting on him. but i have not talked about dude in like a number of posts, so you are late in your smackdown.


[/quote]

If the animosity is from another life, perhaps it would be best to leave it there?

it was a pretty hardcore derail into ad hominem, shooting semper as the messenger in your first reply, first reply in the thread.

Imagine someone you respect posted this article, how different would all your responses be?





some people here seem dead set on shaming the girl for being a tramp, "inviting it", asking for it. what is this the freaking middle ages?

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1292801018' post='2193520']
except you give obama the benifit of the doubt about his ignorance. unless you know him personally, you have no clue what he actually believes. all we know for a fact is he has lied to the american public and been caught in the lies. so we know he does lie about things. so he well could be lying about this, true?

ok, no matter what he believes, his views are counter to the catholic church and should not be allowed to speak at a catholic college. i mean should we next let satanist who are ignorent of the truth speak at catholic colleges because they have a different point of view and are ignorent to the truth.
[/quote]


Everybody gets the benefit of the doubt, whether we know them or not. Especially if we don't know them. We refrain from passing judgment on people's motives. We try to think of people in the best light possible because we don't know whats going on on their internal forum. Yeah he could be lying about this. Frankly, I doubt he or most of humanity has it in them to happily rubber stamp something they recognize as brutal murder.

As far as people being allowed to speak at Catholic colleges, I don't see whats wrong with people of different opinions doing that. There is a long tradition of that. In the scholastic period you had a lot of Islamic and Christian philosophers and theologians visiting each other's universities and participating in conferences. The dialogue/debate led to important intellectual developments in both civilizations. Obviously they did not endorse each other's point of view. This is the bubble issue again. Some colleges are Catholic bubbles, and you will never hear any cognitive dissonance there. That is fine. Notre Dame is not that type of institution.

But as far as the honorary degree goes, I didn't object to Notre Dame not giving him the degree. I objected to the comment saying that Notre Dame isn't Catholic because they gave an honorary degree to a person who supports murder. Of course they shouldn't do such a thing, and as far as I know, they haven't, because the President doesn't support murder.

He doesn't support murder but that doesn't mean he should get an honorary degree. Notre Dame has a definite idea of what natural law entails. The President, according to Notre Dame's standards, stinks royally at natural law. Any thesis of his on the subject would not pass. That means he would not and should not get the J.D. from Notre Dame, honorary or otherwise. No J.D.s for crappy lawyers.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1292706495' post='2193369']
There is an algorithm that says the longer a debate goes on, the statistical likelihood that someone will bring up Hitler to justify their argument approaches near certainty. You lasted 1 post.
[/quote]

But it is the commonality that each share that made Hitler wicked. It is not as though the discussion was of goose stepping, little mustaches, or no smoking laws. It was instead of person hood and life. What made Hitler and the Nazis evil was that they supported the mass murder of persons who were legally non-persons, Obama shares that commonality and is in like manner wicked as Hitler. While their means to accomplish that goal differ, the result is the same, millions of dead non-person persons. Any President, King or ruler that supports the mass murder of any people is as wicked as any other President, King or ruler that did the same though there means may have differed.

[kujo]

I'm sorry. I must have missed something. Did Obama rape a Notre Dame student? Did he unilaterally declare himself dean? And why are we talking about abortion?

Honestly, what does any of this have to do with this story?

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1292813460' post='2193536']
I'm sorry. I must have missed something. Did Obama rape a Notre Dame student? Did he unilaterally declare himself dean? And why are we talking about abortion?

Honestly, what does any of this have to do with this story?
[/quote]

the conversations around here start looking like the Hapsburg family tree, just a wee bit inbred.

[kujo]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1292814353' post='2193539']
the conversations around here start looking like the Hapsburg family tree, just a wee bit inbred.
[/quote]

+1

[Semper Catholic]

What is that girl talking about? Another life? Some of guys are a little to chemically imbalanced for me.

@ Mary this was clearly more then just "he said she said" there was more then enough evidence to at least sit the player during any further investigation. It's clear the ND has lost its way. No skin off my nose, however when the university itself acts to cover up crimes there is a huge problem, especially considering the precedence set by the Catholic religion itself.

I have a feeling there are a number of administrators in dire need of confession for the great injustice they have caused this poor girl.