Shame Of The Irish

[Lilllabettt]

I thought the developments in the Julian Assange (wikileaks guy) were interesting today.
He is charged with sexual assault; most media are critical of the women making the complaint, and seem skeptical that it was really "rape" ---
missing the most important point that [b]Julian Assange admits to treating women like sexual garbage; throwing them out when he is through with them.[/b] In other words, he is a creep. He should be shamed and ostracized by society as a pervert.

But in a world which shares Semper's worldview that sex is less than totally sacrosanct ... that idea is ignored. And everyone sweats bullets over whether Assange's behavior meets the legal defintion of rape ...

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1291778188' post='2191522']
I thought the developments in the Julian Assange (wikileaks guy) were interesting today.
He is charged with sexual assault; most media are critical of the women making the complaint, and seem skeptical that it was really "rape" ---
missing the most important point that [b]Julian Assange admits to treating women like sexual garbage; throwing them out when he is through with them.[/b] In other words, he is a creep. He should be shamed and ostracized by society as a pervert.[/quote]

Additionally, several Biblical characters who did great things should have been treated in the same way. But we still recognize the great things they did despite their perversions. Now, I don't know why Bill Clinton doesn't fall into that realm. Oh, he has power. Never mind. Power covereth a multitude of sins. I heard a firsthand story about a woman who propositioned good ol' Ted Kennedy on a plane flight. Because he had power.

[quote]But in a world which shares Semper's worldview that sex is less than totally sacrosanct ... that idea is ignored. And everyone sweats bullets over whether Assange's behavior meets the legal defintion of rape ...
[/quote]

In a world where powerful scumbags have agendas and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case"]will use any means[/url] to fulfill them, no, I'm not sweating bullets about the definition of rape. I'm wondering what really happened.

[url="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/assange-rape-accuser-cia-ties/"]http://www.rawstory....cuser-cia-ties/[/url]

~Sternhauser

Edited December 12, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Ed Normile]

I was wondering if the young girl involved in this tragedy indicated that the alleged rape or the subsequent handling of the incident was the reason for her suicide or did people just make this assumption because of the timing involved?

ed

[organwerke]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1292207131' post='2192453']
I was wondering if the young girl involved in this tragedy indicated that the alleged rape or the subsequent handling of the incident was the reason for her suicide or did people just make this assumption because of the timing involved?

ed
[/quote]

If you are wondering, why don't you ask to her?
I'm pretty sure she'd tell it was a completely irrilevant coincidence.

[organwerke]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1292207131' post='2192453']
I was wondering if the young girl involved in this tragedy indicated that the alleged rape or the subsequent handling of the incident was the reason for her suicide or did people just make this assumption because of the timing involved?

ed
[/quote]

Sorry if I reply again but really I can't uderstand the meaning and the sense of your post.
Can you explain yourself better? I would also ask you: are you able to say that the suicide has nothing to do with the fact? And which are your sources?
Another thing: we can't speak in terms of certainties, but even in terms of probabilities what is more probable: that the suicide has something to do with the fact or has nothing to do with it?
Then, what you are saying is to be taken as a rule, or as an exception?
Because there are many similar cases...for example, in this same section, it is referred that a student t committed suicide right after a "joke" from his companions who shared publicly a video of him during a sexual relation...and again, some persons say that we can't be sure that the suicide has something to do with it.
Now, I can tell you instead that in most cases suicide HAS to do with facts that happen to the persons who commit suicide.
This doesn't mean that the persons who did the "joke" in that case, or the "alleged rape" in this one, wanted to cause the death of the suicide, but surely they had an unwilling role in it.
Almost always persons who commit suicide have a background of depression, but facts like these can be very easily the decisive factor for a suicide to put his thoughts in practice.
And the thing that always remains as a certainty, is that the "alleged facts" which are seen as a probable cause of suicide, are NEVER actions people should be proud of. Because what you maybe don't realize is that, rape or not, a catholic student shouldn't be proud to have had sex with a woman that wasn't his wife and neither his fiancé, after a party in which he was probably drunk. Not should be proud the shool for this.
And I can't really accept that people deny or don't want to recognize that bad behaviours CAN also have, especially in young persons, devasting effects.
As a teacher myself, I can't allow a low sense of responisbility in these things and the habit to minimize what for an adult can seem only a "joke" or an "irrilevant fact" but for a young person can be a devasting trauma.
Let me say that suicides happen always among young (and also not young) persons, but if I worked in a school in which, after a similar fact, happened in the school, a student committed suicide, the reputation of that school would be marked forever.

[Semper Catholic]

[quote]he St. Joseph County Prosecutor's Office has announced it won't prosecute the alleged [url="http://jezebel.com/tag/sexualbattery/"]sexual battery[/url] that led college student [url="http://jezebel.com/5696455/student-commits-suicide-after-alleged-sexual-assault-by-notre-dame-football-player"]Elizabeth Seeberg[/url] to take her own life. Nor will the person who sent her a threatening text be charged.

According to the [url="http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/news/prosecutor-s-office-declines-to-prosecute-in-seeberg-case-1.1831608"][i]Notre Dame-St. Mary's College Observer[/i][/url], the Office has decided not to prosecute the [url="http://jezebel.com/tag/notredame/"]Notre Dame[/url] football player Seeberg accused of battery because it's "unlikely that Seeberg's statements would be admissible in court because of her death." And according to the [url="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-notre-dame-seeberg-20101216,0,602606,full.story"][i]Chicago Tribune[/i][/url], Notre Dame is now saying they may not release details of Seeberg's accusations to her grieving parents. Some of those details have been made public, though, including this chilling one: after the alleged battery (which in Indiana is defined as "the unwanted touching of another person to satisfy one's own sexual desires"), [b]a friend of the suspect sent Seeberg this text: "Don't do anything you would regret. Messing with notre dame football is a bad idea." [/b]St. Joseph's County prosecutors have said this message doesn't constitute harassment, and they won't be prosecuting its sender either.

[b]The Seebergs' lawyer [url="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-notre-dame-seeberg-20101216,0,602606,full.story"]reportedly[/url] asked Notre Dame for three things regarding their daughter's assault: "a full and vigorous investigation surrounding the allegations; transparency of the investigative process; and an "appropriate disciplinary response" from the university." So far, they appear to have gotten none of these. Notre Dame won't publicly discuss the way it's dealt with the case, and when the Seebergs' lawyer sent the university president a letter explaining their position, he refused to even read it "because it contained facts about the case and could interfere with his role in the school's disciplinary process." Says Elizabeth's father Tom Seeberg,[/b]

[indent] [b]Ultimately, there's a sense of betrayal. There's a sense of the university not living its values. … It is not our intention to take down this great institution. But it has disappointed us. That hurts, and it hurts our family.[/b]

[/indent]

Read more: [url="http://jezebel.com/5714338/officials-wont-prosecute-notre-dame-assault-case#ixzz18KKTGIYR"]http://jezebel.com/5714338/officials-wont-prosecute-notre-dame-assault-case#ixzz18KKTGIYR[/url][/quote]

[Ice_nine]

"Until society realizes that sexual assault/rape is a crime against the social body (such as murder) and not just a personal offense, these travesties will continue to occur."

Ripped from the comments of that article. Shameful that Notre Dame calls itself a Catholic institution. Blech. I would like to imagine that Catholic schools defend the integrity of women instead of adopting society's attitude by sweeping these cases under the rug when it threatens their pr. Silly me being an idealist I guess.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Ice_nine

[havok579257]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1292645682' post='2193285']
"Until society realizes that sexual assault/rape is a crime against the social body (such as murder) and not just a personal offense, these travesties will continue to occur."

Ripped from the comments of that article. Shameful that Notre Dame calls itself a Catholic institution. Blech. I would like to imagine that Catholic schools defend the integrity of women instead of adopting society's attitude by sweeping these cases under the rug when it threatens their pr. Silly me being an idealist I guess.
[/quote]


it hasn't really been truely catholic in a long time. when it let's a man who supports murder of children speak at their school.... well yeah, not to catholic.

[Lilllabettt]

sigh here we go again.

[kujo]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1292647681' post='2193286']
it hasn't really been truely catholic in a long time. when it let's a man who supports murder of children speak at their school.... well yeah, not to catholic.
[/quote]

:vomit:

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1292647681' post='2193286']
it hasn't really been truely catholic in a long time. when it let's a man who supports murder of children speak at their school.... well yeah, not to catholic.
[/quote]

This is off topic but I'll say it anyway. The above kind of language is really an example of intolerance and a lack of understanding and appreciation for other points of view.

I am against gay marriage. Some liberal people accuse me of wanting to limit the freedom of gay people. But that accusation is a misunderstanding of my point of view. My view is that real freedom for gay people does not include a legal stamp of approval for a lifestyle I believe keeps them in chains. My view is not a statement of wanting to limit the freedom of gay people.

President Obama does not believe that life begins at conception. He does not believe abortion is murder, and has no problem supporting it. His view is blind and wrong. But it is not a statement in support of child murder. I think the fair thing would be to give the man the benefit of the doubt, that if he did believe it was murder, he would not support it.

What Notre Dame definitely should not have done is given the President an honorary law degree. For his understanding of natural law is true suckage, and a Catholic University should refrain from honoring crappy lawyers.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1292692245' post='2193337']
This is off topic but I'll say it anyway. The above kind of language is really an example of intolerance and a lack of understanding and appreciation for other points of view. [/quote]
God forbid that telling the truth lead us to commit the Unforgivable Sins of Intolerance and Lack of Understanding and Appreciation for Other Points of View. (Particularly if the Other Points of View in question are of a liberal persuasion.)

[quote]President Obama does not believe that life begins at conception. He does not believe abortion is murder, and has no problem supporting it. His view is blind and wrong. But it is not a statement in support of child murder. I think the fair thing would be to give the man the benefit of the doubt, that if he did believe it was murder, he would not support it.[/quote]
Adolf Hitler did not believe that Jewish life is truly human. He did not believe the Final Solution was murder, and had no problem supporting it. His view was blind and wrong. But it was not a statement in support of mass murder. I think the fair thing would be to give the man the benefit of the doubt, that if he did believe it was murder, he would not support it.

Yes, we all know that supporting the deliberate taking of innocent human life is really not so bad, so long as we call it something different, and not so nasty-sounding as "murder."

It is a simple biological fact that a growing unborn human embryo/fetus/baby is both alive and human. you can't kill something which is already dead or non-living. I'm sure a man of Mr. Obama's education and means has access to the scientific facts on this matter.

I'm convinced 99.99% of ignorance that unborn human beings are alive and human in today's world is willful.
Obama does not believe life begins at conception and that abortion is no problem because that is what it is politically expedient for him to believe.

In today's culture, convenience and political expediency take priority over objective truth.
It's a true shame.

[quote]What Notre Dame definitely should not have done is given the President an honorary law degree. For his understanding of natural law is true suckage, and a Catholic University should refrain from honoring crappy lawyers.
[/quote]
Agreed.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Socrates

[Lilllabettt]

There is an algorithm that says the longer a debate goes on, the statistical likelihood that someone will bring up Hitler to justify their argument approaches near certainty. You lasted 1 post.

The problem with ideological purity is that it eventually turns you into an arse. All ideologies, followed to their logical conclusion, end in the ridiculous.

Some people believe abortion is murder; they support it
Other people believe abortion is not murder; they think it is something else; they support it.

Some people hate gays, they are against gay rights
Some people don't hate gays, they are against gay rights

If you can't see the difference between those two groups of people, I think that is ridiculous.

[Maggyie]

What's most interesting is that most of the people who were loudest in condemning Notre Dame for giving President Obama an honorary degree didn't raise a peep when they did the same for President Bush. You know, President Bush, who is pro-abortion in the case of rape or incest. Funny, that.

[Skinzo]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1292789801' post='2193491']
What's most interesting is that most of the people who were loudest in condemning Notre Dame for giving President Obama an honorary degree didn't raise a peep when they did the same for President Bush. You know, President Bush, who is pro-abortion in the case of rape or incest. Funny, that.
[/quote]




I don't think either one should have been so honored in all honesty. But it was not until 2004 that the USCCB said Catholic institutions : “should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles” and that such persons “should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions" . That policy was not in effect in 2001 when Bush was honored. I believe it should have been put into effect in the first century.




S.