Winchester Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 [quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1290464590' post='2188652'] [s]People are held in jail while on trial all the time.[/s] Certainly not being able to play football for a few games wouldn't hurt, and the university wouldn't have to deal with this ensuing PR disaster, not to mention the player could just as easily redshirt. [/quote] I crossed out the irrelevant part. Actually, not being able to play a few games can hurt. The idea that, because of allegations, an accused person's life must be put on hold isn't rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinter dem Horizont Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1290475144' post='2188700'] I crossed out the irrelevant part. Actually, not being able to play a few games can hurt. The idea that, because of allegations, an accused person's life must be put on hold isn't rational. [/quote] Certainly not rational at all. Allegations can ruin someones life. Edited November 23, 2010 by Hinter dem Horizont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1290458710' post='2188632'] This post is one of many examples of why many women do not report a sexual assault. [/quote] you have to admit what he said holds weight. there are numerous cases where women have sent men to jail or to trail for sexual assult that turned out to be a lie. innocent until proven guilty. why punish a man until he has been proven guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 [quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1290464590' post='2188652'] People are held in jail while on trial all the time. Certainly not being able to play football for a few games wouldn't hurt, and the university wouldn't have to deal with this ensuing PR disaster, not to mention the player could just as easily redshirt. [/quote] so you believe before an investigation is complete, someone should be punished? got ya. that makes no sense. if every school went by this rule, they you would have tons of money chasers who would be willing to make accusations against athletes so they would be suspended and miss big games. but by your logic, punish first and have the trial later. people are held in jail during trial because a grand jury indites them. they are not held in jail for allegations when no proper investigation is complete. although i guess under your logic, if i accuse you of sexual assult, your job should immediatly suspend you, you should be thrown in jail before any investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1290524964' post='2188794'] so you believe before an investigation is complete, someone should be punished? got ya. that makes no sense. if every school went by this rule, they you would have tons of money chasers who would be willing to make accusations against athletes so they would be suspended and miss big games. but by your logic, punish first and have the trial later. people are held in jail during trial because a grand jury indites them. they are not held in jail for allegations when no proper investigation is complete. although i guess under your logic, if i accuse you of sexual assult, your job should immediatly suspend you, you should be thrown in jail before any investigation. [/quote] I'm not saying the student wouldn't be able to attend class or keep his scholarships. Police Officers do this all the time as well if they're being investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcts Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 [quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1290533142' post='2188815'] I'm not saying the student wouldn't be able to attend class or keep his scholarships. Police Officers do this all the time as well if they're being investigated. [/quote] There is quite a bit of difference between football and police work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1290524598' post='2188792'] you have to admit what he said holds weight. there are numerous cases where women have sent men to jail or to trail for sexual assult that turned out to be a lie. innocent until proven guilty. why punish a man until he has been proven guilty? [/quote] ikr? The law is so heavily in favor of these alleged rape "victims" so it's perfectly reasonable to assume the alleged victim is lying. It happens all the time. Much more so than other crimes in fact. God forbid that such a fine and upstanding citizen should have to put any of his life on hold to deal with what is most likely a false allegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
organwerke Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1290538938' post='2188830'] it's perfectly reasonable to assume the alleged victim is lying. [/quote] You should say Was lying because the "alleged victim" is dead. And I imagine you find perfectly reasonable that the alleged victim died nine days after she lied about her accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share Posted November 24, 2010 Phatmass: Screw her she's probably lying anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 [quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1290540648' post='2188833'] You should say Was lying because the "alleged victim" is dead. And I imagine you find perfectly reasonable that the alleged victim died nine days after she lied about her accusations. [/quote] I was being sarcastic. I don't understand why some people seem to rush to defend the rights of a morally abhorrent student-athelete and go to the "well she [i]may[/i] [i]be [/i]/ [i]probably is[/i] lying so let's not be hasty to condemn this otherwise outstanding young man." As was said before, no wonder rape victims often don't take the perp to court. Weird how the victim usually ends up more stigmatized than the criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
organwerke Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1290558909' post='2188911'] I was being sarcastic. I don't understand why some people seem to rush to defend the rights of a morally abhorrent student-athelete and go to the "well she [i]may[/i] [i]be [/i]/ [i]probably is[/i] lying so let's not be hasty to condemn this otherwise outstanding young man." As was said before, no wonder rape victims often don't take the perp to court. Weird how the victim usually ends up more stigmatized than the criminal. [/quote] Oh sorry now I understand! I admit that in fact I couldn't really imagine how it is possible to stigmatize so much the victims! (especially considering that this one also committed suicide). And all is clear now that I see that I completely agree with you. It is also said that a person is inncocent until it is proven the contrary...but many persons don't apply this line also to those they accuse so easily of lying: a person must be considered sincere until it is not proven the contrary. We can say she was lying only if/when there are concrete proofs that she really lied, but I hardly believe these proofs exist... Edited November 24, 2010 by organwerke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 I'm glad to see everyone is representing the opposing arguments correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 [quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1290558884' post='2188910'] Phatmass: Screw her she's probably lying anyway! [/quote] no, innocent until proven guilty. unlike your train of thought which says guilty first and the man must prove his innocence. where is the logic in your train of thought? why do you think a man must prove his innocence before being punished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 [quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1290586815' post='2189009'] Oh sorry now I understand! I admit that in fact I couldn't really imagine how it is possible to stigmatize so much the victims! (especially considering that this one also committed suicide). And all is clear now that I see that I completely agree with you. It is also said that a person is inncocent until it is proven the contrary...but many persons don't apply this line also to those they accuse so easily of lying: a person must be considered sincere until it is not proven the contrary. We can say she was lying only if/when there are concrete proofs that she really lied, but I hardly believe these proofs exist... [/quote] and a man should not be punished first and then have his trail later. although people seem to be advocating this course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
organwerke Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1290654198' post='2189180'] and a man should not be punished first and then have his trail later. although people seem to be advocating this course of action. [/quote] People? Which people? Please don't quote me if my post has nothing to do with what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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