Who Was Paul?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1292430986' post='2192884']
Well you tricked me there! Original definition eh? I assumed that either you meant he liked to share his pond and taddies with a frog of the same sex, or the most recent definition meaning that it is no good and/or silly. and I was gunna say most people liked him. [/quote]
You use your avatars, I'll use mine.


[quote]Yes he was quite blunt on occasion, like when he chased people out of the temple. If you want to abuse people for showing disrespect for our religion or my fathers house, I'll hold them in a headlock while you kick their butt! What I was saying was that to insult what people hold near and dear is not the way to bring them to Christ, especially since they already have him to some extent. It would be nicer if they realised just what they are so close too and I agree with that, but like I said it's all in the technique.[/quote]
Jesus would never call falsehood truth for the purpose of "getting along" and avoiding conflict.

"Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's enemies shall be they of his own household." ~ Matthew 10:34-36

Stating that Islam is objectively false is not an insult, but an objectively true statement. If the Christian religion is true, religions contrary to it are false. Enough said.


[quote]This is from another thread, but I thought it was interesting in that it demonstrates that God can be at work within people whose faith is not complete or who have Christ in them but don't [b]Yet[/b] realise what they have. I visualise that when we stand before God we will see that things may be vastly different than what we thought or imagined. This is what I meant by the Church not having a monopoly on truth. As long as the bus is going down your street, Gods not too worried. He will worry about stopping it at your home later.[/quote]
We are still commanded by Christ to go out and convert all people.


[quote]I could be wrong, but you haven't given the impression of holding the Muslims with esteem. You have been giving the impression that you hold them with contempt.
I think what the Church is trying to say is that we can achieve more with diplomacy and tact than we can with hurtful remarks. Here Downunder the Catholics and the Muslims throw a prawn on the barby and have a beer together. It's so much nicer and more productive than machete fights. [/quote]
I'll let God individual Muslim persons, but I can indeed judge the Islamic [i]religion[/i] founded by Mohammed to be false.

Muslims are already well aware that as Christians we believe their religion to be false, just as they as Muslims believe the Catholic Faith to be a false religion and regard us as infidels.

Stating to other Catholics that Islam is a false religion is not an expression of hate for persons.
Just as I would not take it as a statement of personal hatred if a Muslim were to say on a Muslim board that Catholics are infidels. He would merely be speaking consistently with his Islamic beliefs (which of course are wrong).

Glossing over the important differences in belief between Christianity and Islam and pretending we essentially believe the same thing is not charity, but is dishonest and patronizing, and will convert no one.

Perhaps you would censor the words of Saint Thomas Aquinas, the Angelic Doctor, regarding Islam:

[quote]He (Mohammed) seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh urges us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected; he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom.[b] Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity.[/b]

He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the Contrary, Mohammed said that he was sent in the power of his arms - which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants. What is more, no wise men, men trained in things divine and human, believed in him from the beginning (1). Those who believed in him were brutal men and desert wanderers, utterly ignorant of all divine teaching, through whose numbers Mohammed forced others to become his follower's by the violence of his arms. Nor do divine pronouncements on part of preceding prophets offer him any witness. [b]On the contrary, he perverts almost all the testimony of the Old and the New Testaments by making them into a fabrication of his own, as can be seen by anyone who examines his law.[/b] It was, therefore, a shrewd decision on his part to forbid his followers to read the Old and New Testaments, lest these books convict him of falsity. It is thus clear that those who place faith in his words believe foolishly"[/quote] ~ [i]Summa Contra Gentiles[/i], Book 1, Chapter 16, Art. 4.

Saint Thomas held the Muslims in enough esteem to try to convert them to the Catholic Faith, and engaged Islamic scholars in religious debate, rather than gloss over their differences.

We should do the same.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1292540710' post='2193102']
You use your avatars, I'll use mine.

[/quote]

[img]http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/11/128734906651941723.jpg[/img]

And I thought things were starting to lighten up. No chance says Sat... oops I mean Socrates.

Even though I am offended by your comments, coarseness, insults to others and lack of patience. What I'm about to write has no malice intended to you. It's just to add balance to your opinions.
Why this Phorum allows you to declare yourself a 'Church Militant' whatever that is, I don't know. But it is misleading! It makes people think that what you write is the view of the Catholic Church. Maybe you are entitled to voice your distorted, arrogant and opinionated views of scripture. But if so, then I am entitled to my opinion of [b]your posts[/b]. As far as discussing scripture and ethics, I am better off talking to Rey B. He may be a bit confused, but at least he is nice and is Christ like. Fortunately, (I think) I've never had the pleasure of knowing you as a person and cannot say that you are maybe a person with a disposition problem. But what your [u]posts convey[/u] (note posts) are more representative of a person with a dark side. I think I suggested that once before and you took it personally, but I meant what your posts convey. I know many Catholics who would get very angry reading you. I haunt Phatmas for my learning. Unfortunately I don't think I have anything to learn from you.
I put it to you Sir, that if your Church Militant tag is an indication that you represent Catholicism and have some authority to interpret scripture, then it is a lie! And you should consider asking to have it removed. Then you will be free to write whatever you like. Except to warn that your posts are Phishy.

[Gregorius]

You know, the anonimity of teh internets does seem to bring out the worst in people. I seen many people on this phorum who would otherwise treat the other with respect hurl insults and block each other for some stupid reason. Mark, Socrates, please don't be that guy.
[quote name='Thomas Hardy']
Had he and I but met
By some old ancient inn,
We should have set us down to wet
Right many a nipperkin!

But ranged as infantry,
And staring face to face,
I shot at him as he at me,
And killed him in his place.

I shot him dead because—
Because he was my foe,
Just so: my foe of course he was;
That's clear enough; although

He thought he'd 'list, perhaps,
Off-hand like—just as I—
Was out of work—had sold his traps—
No other reason why.

Yes; quaint and curious war is!
You shoot a fellow down
You'd treat, if met where any bar is,
Or help to half a crown.
[/quote]

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Gregorius' timestamp='1292565629' post='2193146']
You know, the anonimity of teh internets does seem to bring out the worst in people.
[/quote]
You should see me in person when I'm really mad.

[quote] I seen many people on this phorum who would otherwise treat the other with respect hurl insults and block each other for some stupid reason. Mark, Socrates, please don't be that guy.[/quote]

No fear! I'm actually quite calm and have no intention of getting into a slanging match. Been there, done that, [b]bad result[/b]. On another forum (mainly atheist) I defended generalising the Catholic faith with the same vigour that I have defended generalising Islam here. This was against people who had experienced soc's type of proselytising. [b]I lost[/b]! If you read my post carefully you will see that I am not actually being as insulting as it appears. We are all guilty of writing, saying and doing things which are the works of darkness, that's why we have to go to confession. Whether Soc. realises it or not, what he says also affects [b]all non Catholics[/b]. I may be overly sensitive, but I feel that there are members of Phatmass that would be hurt by 'Unless you're a Catholic your faith is a sect, whatever hero you follow is a false prophet, you don't worship the real God and you are doomed to hell '. [i]I happen to love people who are not Catholic yet stay with Phatmass.[/i] That's real enquiry and it leads to solid faith, that is if they don't already have it. There are people who believe that you have to be a practising Catholic or you won't go to heaven, just as there are numerous Muslims who believe the same thing. I've got news for them and it's all bad. Thanks for your concern and peace be with you Gregorius. 'Blessed are the peace makers.'

[reyb]

Southern Guy is simply asking about your opinion, and your answer is…
[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290357997' post='2188368']
Huh?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1290359884' post='2188376']
You need to find better websites to hang out at.

Jesus hand picked Paul just as he hand picked the Apostles. I'm not going to tell Jesus he didn't know what he was doing.
[/quote]
[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290465554' post='2188658']
Yeah, they say Jesus was a prophet. Apparently, a lying prophet.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
You are even reminded by
[quote name='Hinter dem Horizont' timestamp='1290474245' post='2188699']
I didn't say for YOU to find Him in there. But for those that truly believe it is His word, then so be it. Until you read it and understand, then don't mock it.
[/quote]
And your conclusion lead to…
[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1290631133' post='2189085']
Islam is a false religion, and is contrary to the Christian Faith.
[/quote]

Southern man is simply asking about your opinion. Why not try to answer his question rather than ignoring it and insulting him?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1292562227' post='2193143']
And I thought things were starting to lighten up. No chance says Sat... oops I mean Socrates.

Even though I am offended by your comments, coarseness, insults to others and lack of patience.
. . .
Why this Phorum allows you to declare yourself a 'Church Militant' whatever that is, I don't know. But it is misleading! It makes people think that what you write is the view of the Catholic Church. Maybe you are entitled to voice your distorted, arrogant and opinionated views of scripture.
. . .
I haunt Phatmas for my learning. Unfortunately I don't think I have anything to learn from you.
I put it to you Sir, that if your Church Militant tag is an indication that you represent Catholicism and have some authority to interpret scripture, then it is a lie! And you should consider asking to have it removed. Then you will be free to write whatever you like. Except to warn that your posts are Phishy.
[/quote]
I accept your surrender.

Have a merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.

[Socrates]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1292636918' post='2193260']
Southern Guy is simply asking about your opinion, and your answer is…



You are even reminded by

And your conclusion lead to…


Southern man is simply asking about your opinion. Why not try to answer his question rather than ignoring it and insulting him?
[/quote]
A Southern man don't need him 'round anyhow.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1292697599' post='2193352']
I accept your surrender.

Have a merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.
[/quote]
I hand you my sword! I've lost again. I'll try to do better next time. Are you game for a rematch Kahn?

Peace be with you. And you also Have a merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.
My apologies to the Phorum for the use of the 'D' 'beaver dam' word. I was unaware that it is considered offensive at PM and wondered why the filta changes it. I've been told that your use of the P word was not necessarily inappropriate since it is apparently used in scripture. Live Long and prosper.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Mark of the Cross