Key Catholic Social Ideas--Where Do Catholics Stand?

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1290519978' post='2188775']
I know very devout Catholics who feel the pro-life movement's current strategy of pressing for legal reform is an ineffective waste of time when it comes to stopping abortion. Some I know feel the focus should be on changing the cultural reaction to the idea of abortion, and then legal protection will follow that. For example, with cigarettes. Smoking is considered socially unacceptable nowadays, and that has reduced the number of smokers far more than starting with prohibition would have. Meanwhile, restrictions on cigarettes have grown, so much so that in some places it is almost impossible to buy and use cigarettes. Perhaps one day cigarettes will be banned by the FDA as harmful to consumers. But the cultural campaign has been the more effective route than the legal one.
[/quote]

Just imagine how different things would be if Planned Parenthood had the same cultural reputation as Big Tobacco. Just imagine.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1290520788' post='2188776']
Either approach will work, but the Church is very clear that law must protect the unborn. One may support certain strategies, but a Catholic must call for legal change.
[/quote]
I agree.

Any "Catholic" who thinks it acceptable that the law explicitly allow and endorse the deliberate murder of innocent children is not Catholic at all in his thinking.

If the law fails to protect innocent human life at its most vulnerable, it is worthless and inherently unjust.
A Catholic must not support such grave injustice.


The whole "legal reform" vs. "cultural change" is a false dichotomy. The two are not somehow opposed and contrary to one another, though one may choose which to focus on primarily. Fighting for legal change may be done simply by flipping a switch at a voting booth. It doesn't take that much time and effort, and does not detract in any way from working to change hearts and minds on abortion.

That whole line seems to usually be nothing more than an excuse by liberal "Catholics" to justify supporting blatantly pro-abortion politicians or laws.

But if you want cultural change, supporting pro-abortion politicians and policies doesn't really send the message that fighting abortion is very high on our priority list.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1290561525' post='2188924']
The whole "legal reform" vs. "cultural change" is a false dichotomy. [/quote]

Did anyone here place those two realities in opposition?


[quote]Fighting for legal change may be done simply by flipping a switch at a voting booth.
[/quote]

"Flipping a switch." Reminds me of Al Gore's amazing conversion from "pro-life" to "pro-death" when he was offered the Vice-Presidency by Bill Clinton. [i]Libido dominandi[/i] has such a marvellous principle-sapping capacity.

~Sternhauser

[Winchester]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290552416' post='2188884']
Grrrr. Sternhauser BITE! [s] Nothing wrong with laws that protect unborn children, though I may disagree with the process by which those laws are enacted. [/s] But those laws won't get passed until there is a profound cultural shift, as Lillabett pointed out, which will ultimately make those laws pretty unnecessary, anyway. When people are governed by God, they have no need to be governed by man.
100 years ago, desk clerks wouldn't even check a man and a woman into a into a hotel unless they could show they were married. The statute prohibiting people from doing so wasn't even necessary, as the cultural prohibitions were so strong.

Shunning should be brought back. It's hard to be a criminal where people know who you are and refuse to do any business with you. Additionally, the term "ne'er do well" should be brought back, and frequently used by all.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
Cigarettes. This gets easier if you read the brilliant poo I write.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1290562964' post='2188933']
Cigarettes. This gets easier if you read the brilliant poo I write.
[/quote]

You were absolutely right. It does illustrate how the State tyrannically violates individual rights. What is the contention?

~Sternhauser

[Winchester]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290566420' post='2188957']
You were absolutely right. It does illustrate how the State tyrannically violates individual rights. What is the contention?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
What's "contention" mean?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1290566482' post='2188958']
What's "contention" mean?
[/quote]

It's when you can't go, 'cause you ate too many pork rinds.

~Sternhauser