Tales From The Crypt

[Lil Red]

like, have i stumbled into some bizarro world where CATHOLICS think alcohol is bad? lolwhut?

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1290967162' post='2189680']Man I am getting old, this just seems wrong to me on so many levels. Cheap booze to attract the kiddies to God, maybe get a late night drunken confession to boot. Theres nothing wrong with listening to a little secular music... right. the Priest grinned. Gee father we look to you for guidance, especially the youth, what could be wrong with young women dancing and grinding their hips to YMCA while drunk in an atmosphere with a Crucifix displayed on the wall along with pictures of JPII and a priest in attendance, we know the kiddies enjoy this behavior, rumor has it they enjoy casual hook up sex too, why not add a few beds, of course with a crucifix and a priest nearby, place them near the confessional and they could repent after the sex and all will be fine. Its about time the church woke up.[/quote]
'the kiddies' - lolwhut? since when is a 21 year old a 'kiddie'? yah, i'm sure they have beds there @@ to hook up. umm, what universe do you live in?

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1292186819' post='2192369']you know, not everybody has homosexuality on their minds when they hear that song...

there are a lot of things out there that I have to be told by others "OH...THAT'S BAAAAAAD!" ....for example, take the "hook em' horn" sign that the University of Texas has...somebody had to go and tell me, "That's the Debel's sign!!! DON'T DO IT, DON'T MAKE THAT SIGN...IT'S THE DEBEL...THE DEBEL!!!"

I was like, "chill, man, its LONGHORNS...you know...LONGHORNS???"

...Not everybody takes something and makes it out to be some evil symbol, or evil conspiracy or something....heck, i hate the YMCA song, but it's not like everybody who enjoys it is pro-homosexual or something...people just enjoy it and dance to it, cos to them it's fun....


as far as this club, I won't be judging this Priest, 'cos I've never seen this club, and I've never been there...it may not be as bad as people make it out to be....[/quote]
i think you're awesome.

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1292208559' post='2192458']
Ah yes, it can be. Any song that people dance to, especially either dressed immodestly or drunk can lead to one placing ones self in the near occasion of sin. There is a reason why here in the states the legal limit for driving drunk is 0.08 in the majority of the states, this is less than a can of beer ingested in one hour by a 200 lb person, considerably less for the ladies. They have these limits because the average person starts to lose control of their mental facilities at this point. Alcohol is well known for loosening peoples libidos as well as their morals too. Does anyone here really feel its okay to serve alcohol to youths in a setting with a crucifix on the wall and a priest present who condones the setting? What message does this send to the youth who frequent the club? I assume the crypt is hallowed ground, why not just open a larger club in St Peter's Cathedral?

The Ale Mary's bar seems like an assault on the Blessed Virgin Mary's name to me, I wonder how many people have left there drunk to engage in some sort of sin? Just the act of overindulgence that many must exhibit in the place is sinful, to name such an establishment that caters to drunks and alcoholics as well as the casual drinker who will stop in to have a beer and maybe a sammitch and never get actually drunk is just a shame which is compounded by the presence of the crucifix collection, seemingly to denote it definitively as a catholic joint . Was the owner thinking this would attract all good drunk catholics or maybe he felt he would get clientele that would come there expressly to get drunk and act wild in a place with a catholic theme to belittle the faith? I just do not know the thinking behind either of these places.

ed
[/quote]
oh my gosh.

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1292268647' post='2192574']
Anyway, back to the main topic at hand . . . I don't really have a problem with a Catholic bar/club, though I find its proximity to the tombs a bit troubling. The article indicates that the club is in a part of the crypt separate from the tombs, but still . . .
("Crypt" means simply the basement level of a church, and doesn't necessarily imply a burial place.)

At my undergrad Alma Mater, a very orthodox conservative Catholic school, the alumni reception at Homecoming is held in the chapel crypt, where alcoholic beverages are served, as the neighboring commons building is reserved for (gasp!) dancing.

[b]The idea that Christians must not dance or serve alcohol sounds more Baptist than Catholic.[/b]

I don't have a problem with the concept, but I think it would be better to have in in a building other than a church.[/quote]
agreed. we're not pagans, and we're not Protestants.

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1292449473' post='2192925']
Additionally, we're talking about [i]two drinks! [/i]That's not enough to get 95% of people drunk, even in immediate succession. As someone else pointed out, there are plenty of places in Rome for people who want to get hammered and find a one night stand, and that is [i]not[/i] why those kids are going to the Crypt. It would be a Godsend if such places popped up all over the world. (In more proper places.)

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1293061731' post='2194021']
Ed, what religion are you? For Catholics, it is not a sin to drink alcohol, and it never has been...

I find this place rather fascinating...I would down a few drinks, chat with my friends and socialize a bit, go upstairs and say a few prayers before I head home....

...what a great way to spend a night out on the town!! I wish my pastor would open up something like this in my neck of the woods!!!
[/quote]
ditto. i would gladly drink with you.

[Ed Normile]

Dominican soul, I am a catholic, and I assume you are one too. Why would you question my beliefs if I feel that its a sin to drink in the consecrated grounds that cardinals are buried in. I assume you read the posted article here. This still amazes me, I must assume none of you have ever seen the effects alcohol has on some people. I am much older than many here so i guess I must have a little more restraint than to question someones religious beliefs if they do not agree with me. I have seen lives ruined by alcohol, I have heard of rapes and accidents and other abuses fueled by alcohol. I just feel that serving it at a reduced price in a club atmosphere to attract catholic youth is just wrong. This seems to send the message that the Roman Catholic Church will stoop to anything to attract youth.

Now you guys can drink all you want wherever you want, I hope it never leads you to sin or bad consequences, but any who deny the fact that it could are either daft or adept at lying to themselves. Pick up a newspaper on any day and you can see reports of another person who has ruined their lives or the life of another from the abuse of alcohol. Even the moderate use of alcohol affects your health in many ways, you can always tell a woman who drinks, it shows on her face. A man it shows in other ways.

Lil Red you are a MOD here? I guess using your Mod wisdom you may be able to make the leap of assumption that a 21 year old may just seem like a kiddie to a 50 year old man, afterall I was 29 before these kiddies were even born, and my judging by the juvenile assaults I have received here from the youths on this subject only seems to fortify my view of their maturity. The amish have a saying "too soon old, too late wise" If you feel its appropriate to serve alcohol and play music such as the homosexual anthem YMCA in a crypt that houses the bones of Cardinals of the Church with, as the article states young women grinding their hips to the YMCA, then all I can say to you is , Oh My Gosh!!

ed

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1293159877' post='2194216']
Christian burial ground is no place for a tavern the ground is sacred/solemn ground. Would any of us go to a club built on top of Arlington Cemetery. This club is built inside of a cemetery, a burial ground and it is no place to be clubbing.
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly! Now wait for the assaults and accusations to begin!

ed

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1293143617' post='2194172']
They've 'converted' part of the crypt into a bar/club, a crypt where holy saints and people of the church are buried (the article itself states that a Churchmen is buried just feet away from the club), in such places one should show solemn respect and humble silence. This bar/club is not that, and it is sacrilege.
[/quote]

Again I agree with you, I feel what is happening here is people will try to use any rationale to okay what they want to do. Have you seen any of the threads here about the use of marijuana? I think they see this as an attack on their drinking, they have come of age and are able to buy it so they see anything that is against the use of it as a personal attack on their practises. I think this is a sacriledge to serve it in that location, and I feel it shines a bad light on the Church in whole, especially in this time so close to the scandals which have rocked the Church. I have seen asinine statements such as "Jesus turned water into win " brought up to bolster their argument, that was at a wedding, I doubt they played the homosexual anthem YMCA at that wedding or that Jesus would have okayed the party spilling out into the local synagogue or their consecrated burial grounds either. But hey, I am just an old geezer and not as wise as the youth here. So party on dudes!

ed

[dominicansoul]

"Hello, my name is Dominicansoul....


...and I am an alcohol......I mean... a Catholic....."


(apparently, you assume because I love to drink I must be a booze hound....)

I questioned you're religion because you sound like the "fundies" that I work with at my office who seem to believe alcohol is a tool of satan, and has no good aspects at all....

Edited December 25, 2010 by dominicansoul

[dominicansoul]

have any of you actually been here to this tavern? from the way it sounds, it doesn't seem to be that these "kids" (who are actually young adults) are stomping on the faces of dead saints while they dance to YMCA and drink until they are ready to fornicate....

ease up a little, Jesus is NOT a stoic, and apparently, from reading Scripture, He went to a lot of dinner parties where he drank and actually had FUN....

Edited December 25, 2010 by dominicansoul

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1293250265' post='2194328']
"Hello, my name is Dominicansoul....


...and I am an alcohol......I mean... a Catholic....."


(apparently, you assume because I love to drink I must be a booze hound....)

I questioned you're religion because you sound like the "fundies" that I work with at my office who seem to believe alcohol is a tool of satan, and has no good aspects at all....
[/quote]

My, aren't we judgemental? I wonder by what authority you question my religious beliefs? Did I ever address you as an alcoholic or a "boozehound" , or do you feel inside that my view that this is inappropriate in a crypt, somehow in some universe is an attack on you or your practises? You brought up the "fundies you work with" did you share this article with them? If you feel this is an okay thing I task you to show them the article, or do you feel somewhere in that hidden voice inside of you which is your conscience that they would look at this as another misstep by the Church hierarchy, and it may embarrass you for them to know of it? If this is the case then, can you really justify it as a good thing?

ed

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1293248411' post='2194322']
This seems to send the message that the Roman Catholic Church will stoop to anything to attract youth.[/QUOTE]

My aren't we judgemental?

[quote]Now you guys can drink all you want wherever you want, I hope it never leads you to sin or bad consequences, but any who deny the fact that it could are either daft or adept at lying to themselves.[/quote]

quit assuming we're booze hound, out of control drinkers who have no responsibility for ourselves.....We're Catholics for gosh sakes!

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1293251361' post='2194330']
You brought up the "fundies you work with" did you share this article with them? If you feel this is an okay thing I task you to show them the article, or do you feel somewhere in that hidden voice inside of you which is your conscience that they would look at this as another misstep by the Church hierarchy, and it may embarrass you for them to know of it? If this is the case then, can you really justify it as a good thing?

ed
[/quote]

I'm not ashamed of my Catholic beliefs....besides, I've shown those fundies worse!! I've actually shown those fundies the PHATMASS PHORUM!!!

I respect you Ed, you're a great egg...just a little unbalanced and judgemental...I mean, you've never been here, how do you know it's as the paper says? We all know the media screws up stories all the time to make Catholicism look bad...

MERRY CHRISTMAS!! I'M OFF TO MIDNITE MASS!!!

then, *gasp* off for drinks with my sister!!!!

God bless!!!!

[Ed Normile]

Dominica soul, I am judgemental and unbalanced, if you feel this way than pray for me at midnight mass please. Of course you must realize that you have just passed two very mean spirited and demeaning judgements on me without any provoking, save my thinking its inappropriate to party in a crypt? I guess you realize that the lie you have repeated here, that I ever referred to you, or anybody else, either here at phatmass or those who drink in this crpyt as boozehounds as you repeated in this statement " quit assuming we're booze hound, out of control drinkers " is a ridiculous stretch of the facts. Your argument would carry far more weight if you stuck to the use of truth, if you were to be truthful in your retorts you could not infer that I called anyone a boozehound. Please do not falsely accuse me of having ever, even once referred to you or anyone in this or any thread as a boozehound, because ".[b]....We're Catholics for gosh sakes[/b]! " and as such we should try to follows the Commandments, in this case the one thou shall not bear false witness, and maybe the one about telling a lie comes to mind.

ed

Edited December 25, 2010 by Ed Normile

[Lil Red]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1293250265' post='2194328']"Hello, my name is Dominicansoul....


...and I am an alcohol......I mean... a Catholic....."


(apparently, you assume because I love to drink I must be a booze hound....)

I questioned you're religion because you sound like the "fundies" that I work with at my office who seem to believe alcohol is a tool of satan, and has no good aspects at all....[/quote]


[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1293250639' post='2194329']have any of you actually been here to this tavern? from the way it sounds, it doesn't seem to be that these "kids" (who are actually young adults) are stomping on the faces of dead saints while they dance to YMCA and drink until they are ready to fornicate....

ease up a little, Jesus is NOT a stoic, and apparently, from reading Scripture, He went to a lot of dinner parties where he drank and actually had FUN....[/quote]
yup, I'm Catholic. I stomp on the saints, dance to homosexual music and drink until I'm ready to boink a lot of people, even though I'm married with kids.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1293248411' post='2194322']
Lil Red you are a MOD here? I guess using your Mod wisdom you may be able to make the leap of assumption that a 21 year old may just seem like a kiddie to a 50 year old man, afterall I was 29 before these kiddies were even born, and my judging by the juvenile assaults I have received here from the youths on this subject only seems to fortify my view of their maturity. The amish have a saying "too soon old, too late wise" If you feel its appropriate to serve alcohol and play music such as the homosexual anthem YMCA in a crypt that houses the bones of Cardinals of the Church with, as the article states young women grinding their hips to the YMCA, then all I can say to you is , Oh My Gosh!!

ed[/quote]
1. dUSt won't accept my resignation. feel free to email him at phatmass@gmail.com and request that i be demoted.

2. so, you're a crotchety old man? okay, check.

3. because we question the puritanical attitude you have about alcohol, we are juvenile. check.

4. we're not Amish. We're Catholic.

5. the song YMCA has already been discussed and I'm not going to repeat the good points made by MithLuin.

6. I never once stated it was okay to have a club next to the bones of our ancestors in faith. i've been mocking your attitude about alcohol.

7. where does it say grind their hips in the original article? i read 'thrust their hands and hips to the music', which, by most people's standards is called 'dancing'.

8. "then all I can say to you is , Oh My Gosh!!": right back atcha, babe.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1293248411' post='2194322']
Dominican soul, I am a catholic, and I assume you are one too. Why would you question my beliefs if I feel that its a sin to drink in the consecrated grounds that cardinals are buried in. I assume you read the posted article here. This still amazes me, I must assume none of you have ever seen the effects alcohol has on some people. I am much older than many here so i guess I must have a little more restraint than to question someones religious beliefs if they do not agree with me. I have seen lives ruined by alcohol, I have heard of rapes and accidents and other abuses fueled by alcohol. I just feel that serving it at a reduced price in a club atmosphere to attract catholic youth is just wrong. This seems to send the message that the Roman Catholic Church will stoop to anything to attract youth.

Now you guys can drink all you want wherever you want, I hope it never leads you to sin or bad consequences, but any who deny the fact that it could are either daft or adept at lying to themselves. Pick up a newspaper on any day and you can see reports of another person who has ruined their lives or the life of another from the abuse of alcohol. Even the moderate use of alcohol affects your health in many ways, you can always tell a woman who drinks, it shows on her face. A man it shows in other ways.

Lil Red you are a MOD here? I guess using your Mod wisdom you may be able to make the leap of assumption that a 21 year old may just seem like a kiddie to a 50 year old man, afterall I was 29 before these kiddies were even born, and my judging by the juvenile assaults I have received here from the youths on this subject only seems to fortify my view of their maturity. The amish have a saying "too soon old, too late wise" If you feel its appropriate to serve alcohol and play music such as the homosexual anthem YMCA in a crypt that houses the bones of Cardinals of the Church with, as the article states young women grinding their hips to the YMCA, then all I can say to you is , Oh My Gosh!!

ed
[/quote]
Juvenile assualts? No "youths" were "assualting" you. If anything, it was much more directed at the "youths" than any assaults directed at you!

And as you seem to ignore, this is hardly a "club" in the sense of most clubs. But since those opposed to this want to look at it in the worst possible light, I'm out. To go around saying that having a drink is a sin is just ridiculous. Have fun telling us we're all going to hell because we have an occasional drink...you know, when Jesus turned water into wine, and didn't seem to have a problem with people drinking it.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1293253007' post='2194334']



yup, I'm Catholic. I stomp on the saints, dance to homosexual music and drink until I'm ready to boink a lot of people.
[/quote]

Thats a shame, but at least you are not doing this in the consecrated ground of a crypt near the interred bodies of Cardinals. I am becoming amused at the levels you guys are reaching to okay this, the quote you used with this post asks if anybody has actually been to this tavern? not I at least, but admitting it is a tavern sheds some light on the subject. I wonder what biblical passage you guys have that has Jesus drinking in the tavern? Another post here asks about the press skewing the article to make the Church look bad, if you ask me the Church, or rather the priest who conceived this travesty opened that door by opening the tavern in the crypt. Instead of just placing a person in the near occasion of sin, he placed an entire Basilica in this position at the least he invited the hint of scandal to be easily cast at the Church . Again I say this was an ill conceived idea and very unseemly.

ed

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1293254192' post='2194336']
Juvenile assualts? No "youths" were "assualting" you. If anything, it was much more directed at the "youths" than any assaults directed at you!

And as you seem to ignore, this is hardly a "club" in the sense of most clubs. But since those opposed to this want to look at it in the worst possible light, I'm out. To go around saying that having a drink is a sin is just ridiculous. Have fun telling us we're all going to hell because we have an occasional drink...you know, when Jesus turned water into wine, and didn't seem to have a problem with people drinking it.
[/quote]

Another sinks to the level of using a lie, or shall I say a complete fabrication, to bolster their argument. You guys are great at using the quote things here, so MissScripture quote and post it where I wrote you were " [b]we're all going to hell because we have an occasional drink[/b]" shew, is it that hard to make your point without inventing ridiculous lies to attack my position? By the way its spelled "assault" the a goes before the u. And the assaults were juvenile as no mature person invents slanderous statements and post's them inferring that another actually used them as it is easy to re-read what i have wrote here and see that I have never said any of this.

ed

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1293253468' post='2194335']
1. dUSt won't accept my resignation. feel free to email him at phatmass@gmail.com and request that i be demoted.

2. so, you're a crotchety old man? okay, check.

3. because we question the puritanical attitude you have about alcohol, we are juvenile. check.

4. we're not Amish. We're Catholic.

5. the song YMCA has already been discussed and I'm not going to repeat the good points made by MithLuin.

6. I never once stated it was okay to have a club next to the bones of our ancestors in faith. i've been mocking your attitude about alcohol.

7. where does it say grind their hips in the original article? i read 'thrust their hands and hips to the music', which, by most people's standards is called 'dancing'.

8. "then all I can say to you is , Oh My Gosh!!": right back atcha, babe.
[/quote]

Wow ! Where did you imagine I asked for your resignation., is this a self serving cry for pity from your pals here to get them upset at me? What makes you think I have a puritanical attitude about drink? That is possibly the most ridiculous thing stated in this Whole thread. I assume you miss the post i wrote here about my being from a large irish family and having drank alcohol since I was a child, actually my first beer I drank was at 12 years old. I still drink at family reunions and at weddings and picnics etc., fortunately I can handle it. If Mithluin wrote something that said that YMCA is not the homosexual anthem then he/she is wrong. Do you actually think that my quoting an Amish saying about the learning process gained through maturity somehow was related to either you being Amish or my calling you an Amish person? First you call me a crotchety old man, the you call me a babe? I really do not know how to rationally address this, but I doubt rational would even register with you right now. Calm down and re-read the thread and maybe admit, at least to yourself, that you are being unfair and rash in your responses here.

ed