Tales From The Crypt

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1292981066' post='2193879']
Yea it seems that way to me too, I do not know how the math works and the sites I have found are more confusing than helpful. I do know that I took a cousin of mine to a DUI school as part of his sentence as he had lost his license and no one else could take him. I had to drive to Columbus Ohio to take him, if he missed the class he would have been arrested, the whole three hours I sat in the back as it was a bad day and I had nothing else to do, I know that at that class they repeatedly said that a 200 lb man drinking one 12 ounce beer and tested within one hour would be over the limit and be arrested for DUI. They were adamant and made this point at least twenty times during the class.

My cousin was 24, and was playing golf in a foursome and had drank two beers over the course of 10 holes of play when they went across a street to a convienence store to pick up another six pack. The cop who stopped him later said that was his favorite spot to pick up drunk drivers, yes he was driving a golf cart and tested well over the legal limit even though he had passed all field sobriety tests. I posted the site link so you guys could see what I had found after googling it well after I had written the original post in the spirit of honest discovery. I do not know why they would teach this at a class for drunk drivers but they definetly impressed it on me that it was true and I was only a casual observer.Either way it cost him well over 12,000 dollars in fines, lawyers and court costs and he was not even involved in an accident.

ed
[/quote]
The only way you would get a DUI after two beers is if the breathalyzer administered immediately after drinking the alcohol and it is giving a false BAC. That's why the cops make you sit in your car so long before they administer it, so you can't use that as an excuse. Did they give your cousin a blood test when he got to the popo station? I'm guessing not, since that would have exonerated him. Breathalyzers are crude tools, I am amazed that people are convicted off of those.

[Ed Normile]

Mith Luin this Monsignor Martinelli sounds like a great guy, but I read in the article here that it was Father Mirilli who opened the bar and got the nod from his Bishop Mandara, also he "joined the priesthood" the year of the jubilee celebratiion in rome, which I beleive was in 2000.

[quote][/quote]
Father Mirilli joined the priesthood at the age of 29, when the late Pope John Paul II was gearing up for the church's Jubilee celebration in Rome. Among the highlights of the Jubilee was the Vatican's World Youth Day, which brought two million young Catholics from around the world to Rome in droves—an event that became known as the "Catholic Woodstock
ed

Edited December 22, 2010 by Ed Normile

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1292981066' post='2193879']
Yea it seems that way to me too, I do not know how the math works and the sites I have found are more confusing than helpful. I do know that I took a cousin of mine to a DUI school as part of his sentence as he had lost his license and no one else could take him. I had to drive to Columbus Ohio to take him, if he missed the class he would have been arrested, the whole three hours I sat in the back as it was a bad day and I had nothing else to do, I know that at that class they repeatedly said that a 200 lb man drinking one 12 ounce beer and tested within one hour would be over the limit and be arrested for DUI. They were adamant and made this point at least twenty times during the class.

My cousin was 24, and was playing golf in a foursome and had drank two beers over the course of 10 holes of play when they went across a street to a convienence store to pick up another six pack. The cop who stopped him later said that was his favorite spot to pick up drunk drivers, yes he was driving a golf cart and tested well over the legal limit even though he had passed all field sobriety tests. I posted the site link so you guys could see what I had found after googling it well after I had written the original post in the spirit of honest discovery. I do not know why they would teach this at a class for drunk drivers but they definetly impressed it on me that it was true and I was only a casual observer.Either way it cost him well over 12,000 dollars in fines, lawyers and court costs and he was not even involved in an accident.

ed
[/quote]

Is it possible that this is just another case of "How many beers have you had?" "A couple." Someone can be over the limit and still drive completely safely. Even more safely than someone who never touches alcohol. Blood alcohol content tests should be abolished. If you drive dangerously or hit another person, drunk or sober, you should cover damages to that person. Period.

~Sternhauser

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1292982284' post='2193883']
Is it possible that this is just another case of "How many beers have you had?" "A couple." Someone can be over the limit and still drive completely safely. Even more safely than someone who never touches alcohol. Blood alcohol content tests should be abolished. If you drive dangerously or hit another person, drunk or sober, you should cover damages to that person. Period.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


No, this was a case of four witnesses, the other three members of the foursome and the club vendor who sold the group the limit he was allowed, two beers each and put them on ice, all four testified for him. You know that in many states if you are convicted of drunk driving your insurance will not cover any damages you caused, its legal too for the insurance companies to deny coverage as you were breaking the law.

just a question, why is everyone here so adamantly in support of drinking in or near a church? You can not have a porn store or a bar or even a off track betting establishment within certain distances of a school, yet they open a bar in a crypt, now no need to beat up on me again, the article that is posted here says it is the crypt of Cardinals and I doubt the Church would bury any priest in unconsecrated ground, I was even berated for saying "grinding hips to YMCA " which was taken from the article too. I guess I should not have read the article and just went with my personal feelings. The article also said they have a confessional in the bar? That seems church-like to me. Does this seem right to anyone here?

Now the ale Mary bar is accepted as its in a polish neighborhood and the owners wife and mom is named mary, yet it has rosaries and crucifix displays? I bet if this bar was called Ale Jesus , even if the owner was a mexican man named Jesus and came from an unbroken line of men named Jesus for 7 generations the protestants would have boycotted the bar as it would seem as disrespectful to the Lord, but hey us catholics are okay with a booze joint named Ale Mary's with bold religious references as its only the Blessed Virgin Mary we are talking about. Now I acknowledged the mommies and wifes name as was reported, but if that is the case why did the proprietor not have a picture of his mom and missus, instead he intended to make it seem a religious (slur) < in my opinion, as he included the graven images/religious articles that we catholics who worship Mary use , how else would a sane person look at this? No one here sees a close resemblance between Ale Mary and Ave Maria, sure it may seem cute but wow I see this as an insult to the Blessed Virgin, I bet the local baptists get a laugh and maybe a few good sermons from this place.

I still see this as a sad statement on the church, especially this Father Mirilli and his Bishop Mandara, this seems ill conceived. I have never heard of Theology on Tap either, I assume this is a priest teaching theology to drunks, or excuse me, young people, dare I say youths!!, in a bar setting consuming adult beverages, wow another postive ray of hope for the catholic Church. I know that Jesus ministered to the sinners, but did he join in the sin with them. Now do not be so small minded as to say a few beers is not a sin, one beer in the wrong hands can ruin a life, or several lives, what does this say to those who are taught theology in a bar? Maybe they just need a better slogan to reach the youths, how about Get stoned on religion, or how about Drink in the fullness of the Church, maybe even Get loose with the Gospel.

Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, if the Church opens a head shop in the crypt they could reach out to the dopers, one joint never hurt anyone, and they do have the confessional nearby too, uhh Bless me father for I have sinned, wow man, I don't remember when it was I last went or what my sins are, hey dude this is some good [email="sh@t"]sh@t[/email]! !



ed

[MithLuin]

[b]Ed[/b], Catholics don't worship Mary. We show her reverence. I haven't been in there recently, so I don't remember if he's got pictures of his family up. Before you get all bent out of shape - is it bad for Catholics to decorate their homes with crosses, crucifixes, pictures of Mary, and holy water fonts? Or is that acceptable? Is it blasphemous to have a picture of the Last Supper over your dining room table? The division between sacred and profane in our lives is not always what it should be, but I find it weird when people work so hard to keep the two separate. The veil in the sanctuary was torn in two. Jesus dwells in our hearts. There [i]is[/i] no separation between God's time and my time.

It's all God's time.

Theology on Tap happens in bars, yes. Many bars have a side room or upstairs room that you can use for meetings, so it's a gathering of young adults who can order what they want from the bar (not everyone drinks) and yes, listen to a talk by a priest, bishop or layman about our faith. Sometimes it's devout Catholics who go; other times it is people who are interested but don't go to Church. Depends on the city, I guess.

If you think it is sinful to have a drink, that's fine, but the Church doesn't teach that. There is no scandal in going into a bar.

Monsignor Martinelli is the pastor of the Church where this is occurring. If he wasn't okay with the GPII pub, there wouldn't be one. I'm pretty sure he knows what the rules are, and can keep them from crossing lines concerning the abuse of sacred space. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe he's not overseeing this as closely as he could. I certainly am not in Rome and don't know what is being done. [url=http://www.gpdue.it/]HERE[/url] is the pub's website (for those who know Italian).

And here is another brief article explaining the purpose of this place:

[quote]
Rome dioceses opens novel cultural centre

Located under the vicolo del Grottino, under the Basilica di San Carlo al Corso in Rome, the new Giovanni Paolo II pub features PlayStation outposts, a bar and tables, and a space for live concerts, art exhibitions and book presentations. Already dubbed the GPII pub, it is a collaborative venture by Rome's dioceses and Acli, designed to be a fun space where youth and the faithful can gather and socialize.

‘We wanted to offer fun evenings where people can meet, but also a space dedicated to culture and spirituality,' said Gianluigi De Palo, president of the Roman Acli, ‘It is a place for youth in Rome who are tired of "empty" evenings out.'

An alternative to the parish center, the GPII pub sells beer and has video game outposts but also promotes spiritual and cultural discussions and meetings.

Open Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings from 7pm to midnight, GPII pub is a cultural centre that is open to all, including non-Christians. Membership, which is free, is required for admission.

Organizers hope the GPII pub debunks the idea that being Catholic (or religious) is boring: ‘The concept is "Catholics are fun," and the Rome Catholic Church wants to reclaim the nights in which youth roam around the city without enjoying themselves, often not knowing where to go; we want to fill that void with something that can fulfill their lives, and we can help those who seek this.' The pub's walls and bar are adorned with phrases from the gospel, such as ‘Give me drink.' For more information, see the pub's website, www.gpdue.it, or become a fan on Facebook.

http://www.theflorentine.it/articles/article-view.asp?issuetocId=6182&browse-by=National-News [/quote]


Anyway, I'm very 'live and let live' about this whole thing. I know the Wall St. Journal article made it sound very scandalous and risque, but it hardly seems like it is actually [i]in[/i] the catacombs. It's just a young adult group (of sorts).

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1292984743' post='2193895']
No, this was a case of four witnesses, the other three members of the foursome and the club vendor who sold the group the limit he was allowed, two beers each and put them on ice, all four testified for him. You know that in many states if you are convicted of drunk driving your insurance will not cover any damages you caused, its legal too for the insurance companies to deny coverage as you were breaking the law.

just a question, why is everyone here so adamantly in support of drinking in or near a church? You can not have a porn store or a bar or even a off track betting establishment within certain distances of a school, yet they open a bar in a crypt, now no need to beat up on me again, the article that is posted here says it is the crypt of Cardinals and I doubt the Church would bury any priest in unconsecrated ground, I was even berated for saying "grinding hips to YMCA " which was taken from the article too. I guess I should not have read the article and just went with my personal feelings. The article also said they have a confessional in the bar? That seems church-like to me. Does this seem right to anyone here?

Now the ale Mary bar is accepted as its in a polish neighborhood and the owners wife and mom is named mary, yet it has rosaries and crucifix displays? I bet if this bar was called Ale Jesus , even if the owner was a mexican man named Jesus and came from an unbroken line of men named Jesus for 7 generations the protestants would have boycotted the bar as it would seem as disrespectful to the Lord, but hey us catholics are okay with a booze joint named Ale Mary's with bold religious references as its only the Blessed Virgin Mary we are talking about. Now I acknowledged the mommies and wifes name as was reported, but if that is the case why did the proprietor not have a picture of his mom and missus, instead he intended to make it seem a religious (slur) < in my opinion, as he included the graven images/religious articles that we catholics who worship Mary use , how else would a sane person look at this? No one here sees a close resemblance between Ale Mary and Ave Maria, sure it may seem cute but wow I see this as an insult to the Blessed Virgin, I bet the local baptists get a laugh and maybe a few good sermons from this place.

I still see this as a sad statement on the church, especially this Father Mirilli and his Bishop Mandara, this seems ill conceived. I have never heard of Theology on Tap either, I assume this is a priest teaching theology to drunks, or excuse me, young people, dare I say youths!!, in a bar setting consuming adult beverages, wow another postive ray of hope for the catholic Church. I know that Jesus ministered to the sinners, but did he join in the sin with them. Now do not be so small minded as to say a few beers is not a sin, one beer in the wrong hands can ruin a life, or several lives, what does this say to those who are taught theology in a bar? Maybe they just need a better slogan to reach the youths, how about Get stoned on religion, or how about Drink in the fullness of the Church, maybe even Get loose with the Gospel.

Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, if the Church opens a head shop in the crypt they could reach out to the dopers, one joint never hurt anyone, and they do have the confessional nearby too, uhh Bless me father for I have sinned, wow man, I don't remember when it was I last went or what my sins are, hey dude this is some good [email="sh@t"]sh@t[/email]! !



ed
[/quote]
What is sold at a porn store is inherently sinful. Alcohol is not. Huge difference. I realize that some people do idiotic things after imbibing alcohol, however, that does not make alcohol inherently wrong. A few beers is NOT a sin for everyone, though it may be for some people. If alcohol is so evil, then why did Jesus turn water into wine?

[dominicansoul]

Ed, what religion are you? For Catholics, it is not a sin to drink alcohol, and it never has been...

I find this place rather fascinating...I would down a few drinks, chat with my friends and socialize a bit, go upstairs and say a few prayers before I head home....

...what a great way to spend a night out on the town!! I wish my pastor would open up something like this in my neck of the woods!!!

[KnightofChrist]

[size="2"]It is sacrilege to have a bar club in the crypt of a Church. No amount of rationalization and excuses to explain away that fact will change that reality.[/size]

[MithLuin]

Agreed. A crypt - which has altars and can be used to say mass - is no place for social events of any sort.

A church basement, which is [i]not[/i] sacred space and is intended for social gatherings of the faithful, would be a more appropriate location for this endeavor (which is only 2 months old).

It does not look like this is in the crypt:

[img]http://img.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/598/486/65447451-gp-bar.jpg[/img]

They do have a crucifix, but the pictures I've seen do not reveal any altars or tombs:

[img]http://img3.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/598/486/65447455-the-john.jpg[/img]

Has no one here ever attended a young adult gathering where beer or wine was served?

Edited December 23, 2010 by MithLuin

[KnightofChrist]

They've 'converted' part of the crypt into a bar/club, a crypt where holy saints and people of the church are buried (the article itself states that a Churchmen is buried just feet away from the club), in such places one should show solemn respect and humble silence. This bar/club is not that, and it is sacrilege.

[Mr.Cat]

[dominicansoul]

is it reallly sacrilege? I mean, the saints are in Heaven, drinking the Wine with the Lord...I'm sure they wouldn't mind us doing the same next door from their crypt..

[KnightofChrist]

Christian burial ground is no place for a tavern the ground is sacred/solemn ground. Would any of us go to a club built on top of Arlington Cemetery. This club is built inside of a cemetery, a burial ground and it is no place to be clubbing.

[dominicansoul]

what about those that go to people's graves and say, "I'm gonna drink one for my hommie?" Then, they open up their beers, drink it, and pour some over said hommie's grave?

[MithLuin]

Well, I've never done that....

I have visited graves and had conversations and sung songs and such.

I think that most of Rome is probably a graveyard in the loosest sense. It's been inhabited continuously for thousands of years. They can't dig a subway anywhere without cutting through ruins. I still agree that partying on someone's tomb is not really respectful. Sure, I've walked across ground where people were buried, but more-or-less respectfully.

Anyway, I didn't see any actual crypt in the pictures. It's a tile floor. I think the WSJ was playing a little fast and loose with their description, specifically to conjure up a feeling of scandal. It's what journalists do, you know? Now, maybe there [i]is[/i] actual scandal there, but if so, I think someone should discuss it with the diocese of Rome (which of course is one of the sponsors of the GP2 pub).