1990-1991 Carmels

[carmelite15]

Ok well I am thinking of send some letters to some Carmels the Two I want to write are

Carmelite nuns in denmark wisconsin now are they up under the 1990s or 1991?

and the

Carmelite nuns in jefferson mo what are they up under?

[In The Arms of The Lord]

I'm not sure about the Carmelite nuns in Denmark; but they do have a beautiful webpage: http://www.holynamecarmel.org/

The Carmelite Nuns in Jefferson City, MO are apart of The St. Joseph Association of Discalced Carmelite nuns. Here is the website here if you want to read more about the association, and the Jefferson City Carmel has a little info: http://www.carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/Jeff.htm No matter if they are 1990 or 1991, if you are interested to contact them, then that would be a good idea. They will send you more information about them also.

I know that while we are discerning the religious life, we need to be careful about holding on to what we prefer and what we don't want. I do very much like traditional, especially the beautiful traditons that some Carmels still keep, but it's very important that we let go of our own wants and desires to truly hear what Our Lord is asking. In this way, wherever it may be that He will send us, we will have that deep joy of knowing and doing His will.

Pray fervently that He will lead you to where He wants, and that His desires will be yours also. I'm praying for you while your discerning, Brandee!

[krissylou]

[quote name='In The Arms of The Lord' timestamp='1290098140' post='2187854']
I'm not sure about the Carmelite nuns in Denmark; but they do have a beautiful webpage: [url="http://www.holynamecarmel.org/"]http://www.holynamecarmel.org/[/url]

The Carmelite Nuns in Jefferson City, MO are apart of The St. Joseph Association of Discalced Carmelite nuns. Here is the website here if you want to read more about the association, and the Jefferson City Carmel has a little info: [url="http://www.carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/Jeff.htm"]http://www.carmelite...ph.org/Jeff.htm[/url] No matter if they are 1990 or 1991, if you are interested to contact them, then that would be a good idea. They will send you more information about them also.

I know that while we are discerning the religious life, we need to be careful about holding on to what we prefer and what we don't want. I do very much like traditional, especially the beautiful traditons that some Carmels still keep, but it's very important that we let go of our own wants and desires to truly hear what Our Lord is asking. In this way, wherever it may be that He will send us, we will have that deep joy of knowing and doing His will.

Pray fervently that He will lead you to where He wants, and that His desires will be yours also. I'm praying for you while your discerning, Brandee!
[/quote]


I would agree with all of this. Entirely.

But even beyond letting go of our own wants and desires, it seems to me (as I know all things, oh except I don't, but I still think I'm right on this one) that it's wise to cast a very broad net AT THIS STAGE.

Mother Superior at Brooklyn says you should wait five years before entering. That means you have plenty of time. So this is not the time to be "going steady" with any community, but to "date around." Explore. Check out a wide range of communities -- including those that you would consider to be way too progressive or way too traditional. I'm NOT saying you need to enter there -- but if you can understand a Carmel that is part of Carmel Communities Associated (which includes the more progressive of the Carmels) well enough to understand why someone (maybe not you!) would choose to enter it, AND understand Brooklyn or Valparaiso or Elysburg well enough to understand why someone (maybe not you!) would choose one of them, then you would be in a better position to be able to discern where God may be actually drawing you and why.

A friend of mine just made her perpetual profession with a moderate-to-progressive active Benedictine community. She's very happy there and it seems like a great fit. When she was in the early stages of discernment, she also went to visit a super-strict Poor Clare Colettine monastery. (I'm not sure but I think it's the same monastery that FutureNun is going to enter.) And my friend discerned that the life of the Poor Clare Colettines wasn't for her, and that's fine, but she figured that out AFTER looking into them and not before.

If you were 34 and looking a 35-year-old age limit for entrance in the face, that'd be different. But you're not. You have time. Look around for a while. Have fun with it. Don't get too serious with any one community too quickly. And God might surprise you. God has a tendency to do that. God is tricsky!

Last month we bid farewell to nunsense, who had thought for some time that she only wanted a very very traditional strict Carmel. It turned out God was leading her towards a middle-of-the-road Carmel, that uses a modified habit (which is only sensible in the Australian heat!) and addresses the prioress as "Sister" rather than "Mother." God is tricksy sometimes.

Questions about 1990 or 1991 constitutions are important -- but at a later stage. Now just nose around and explore. And have fun with it!

[carmelite15]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1290114013' post='2187896']
I would agree with all of this. Entirely.

But even beyond letting go of our own wants and desires, it seems to me (as I know all things, oh except I don't, but I still think I'm right on this one) that it's wise to cast a very broad net AT THIS STAGE.

Mother Superior at Brooklyn says you should wait five years before entering. That means you have plenty of time. So this is not the time to be "going steady" with any community, but to "date around." Explore. Check out a wide range of communities -- including those that you would consider to be way too progressive or way too traditional. I'm NOT saying you need to enter there -- but if you can understand a Carmel that is part of Carmel Communities Associated (which includes the more progressive of the Carmels) well enough to understand why someone (maybe not you!) would choose to enter it, AND understand Brooklyn or Valparaiso or Elysburg well enough to understand why someone (maybe not you!) would choose one of them, then you would be in a better position to be able to discern where God may be actually drawing you and why.

A friend of mine just made her perpetual profession with a moderate-to-progressive active Benedictine community. She's very happy there and it seems like a great fit. When she was in the early stages of discernment, she also went to visit a super-strict Poor Clare Colettine monastery. (I'm not sure but I think it's the same monastery that FutureNun is going to enter.) And my friend discerned that the life of the Poor Clare Colettines wasn't for her, and that's fine, but she figured that out AFTER looking into them and not before.

If you were 34 and looking a 35-year-old age limit for entrance in the face, that'd be different. But you're not. You have time. Look around for a while. Have fun with it. Don't get too serious with any one community too quickly. And God might surprise you. God has a tendency to do that. God is tricsky!

Last month we bid farewell to nunsense, who had thought for some time that she only wanted a very very traditional strict Carmel. It turned out God was leading her towards a middle-of-the-road Carmel, that uses a modified habit (which is only sensible in the Australian heat!) and addresses the prioress as "Sister" rather than "Mother." God is tricksy sometimes.

Questions about 1990 or 1991 constitutions are important -- but at a later stage. Now just nose around and explore. And have fun with it!


[/quote]

You are right so so right...I need to go pray.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='In The Arms of The Lord' timestamp='1290098140' post='2187854']
I know that while we are discerning the religious life, we need to be careful about holding on to what we prefer and what we don't want. I do very much like traditional, especially the beautiful traditons that some Carmels still keep, but it's very important that we let go of our own wants and desires to truly hear what Our Lord is asking. In this way, wherever it may be that He will send us, we will have that deep joy of knowing and doing His will.

Pray fervently that He will lead you to where He wants, and that His desires will be yours also. I'm praying for you while your discerning, Brandee!
[/quote]

I too agree with this stement. In discernment, it's very much like dating. It is best to be open to other communities beyond the one you think you might want. In my case I started with a community in mind and was deadset on it; I was to the point of not waning to really look elsewhere. However in looking elsewhere I realized that I was making my discernment about me and my will rather than about Christ and His will.

Suffice it to say, the Holy Spirit helped me to see that the focus was not to be me but rather the Lord. My only advice to you is to continue to stay rooted in prayer and truly open your heart and your mind to the Lord's will.

I will continue to keep you and the other discerners in my prayers.

Pax

Edited November 18, 2010 by HopefulBride

[1catholic]

denmark = 1991

[Chiquitunga]

I agree about trying to be careful about being attached to what we want in a community rather than what God wants. How many saints for instance wanted to enter one Order only to have the Lord call them to another

But at the same time, God often works through our desires ... and sometimes it is Him who plants them. For instance, St. Teresa of the Andes wanted to enter the Carmel of the Holy Spirit in the Andes because it was the poorest in the country .. and that was where God was calling her. That was a holy desire and came from her not wanting her own way, but rather to serve God in all poverty

Regarding the Constitutions, to answer your question .. 'twas posted not too long ago how you can look up which Carmels are under either

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1281154290' post='2153539']
JMJ
Just thought for clarification, ya'all might want to know that the San Francisco Carmel is under the 1991 Constitutions. I talk to the Sisters up in Valparaiso periodically, and asked them about the 1990/1991 constitution stuff. Anywhoo you can tell which communities are under which Constitutions ... as the 1990 Carmel have three *'s next to their names. [url="http://www.discalced...acion=99&"]http://www.discalced...acion=99&[/url] Li=40
drat...could not embed the darn link[img]public/style_emoticons/default/sadder.gif[/img] Oh!the Georgetown Carmel is under the 1990s, except that they are under the OCD Father General (which is very unique ..the vast majority are directly under the Holy See). Hope this helped you DevotedToHim!
[/quote]

So go to [url="http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/"]http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/[/url] .. under Nuns click on Addresses .. then click on the map of North America .. then U.S.A .. and the 1990 Carmels have *** next to their names, while the 1991s do not. Jefferson City has the three stars, so they're 1990 Hope this helps!

But again, whatever is God's will. And also, as you've probably heard it said before, when God calls to Carmel He calls to a specific Carmel .. to a particular community which He knows will be best for that person .. to form them and to be like another family for them. And I think this is especially true of the Mother Prioress (although this can change .. but often in some Carmels at least the same Prioress is elected again and again .. or a couple of the nuns take turns). Of the few different cloistered communities I've visited, something I always try to discern when talking to the Prioress is .. do I feel she is my mother? like a spiritual mother .. and does this place feel like home .. do I feel drawn to the Sisters here .. to spend the rest of my life with them? So anyway, just some different things to consider. God bless you, Brandee!

Edited November 20, 2010 by Chiquitunga

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1290114013' post='2187896']
I would agree with all of this. Entirely.

But even beyond letting go of our own wants and desires, it seems to me (as I know all things, oh except I don't, but I still think I'm right on this one) that it's wise to cast a very broad net AT THIS STAGE.

Mother Superior at Brooklyn says you should wait five years before entering. That means you have plenty of time. So this is not the time to be "going steady" with any community, but to "date around." Explore. Check out a wide range of communities -- including those that you would consider to be way too progressive or way too traditional. I'm NOT saying you need to enter there -- but if you can understand a Carmel that is part of Carmel Communities Associated (which includes the more progressive of the Carmels) well enough to understand why someone (maybe not you!) would choose to enter it, AND understand Brooklyn or Valparaiso or Elysburg well enough to understand why someone (maybe not you!) would choose one of them, then you would be in a better position to be able to discern where God may be actually drawing you and why.

A friend of mine just made her perpetual profession with a moderate-to-progressive active Benedictine community. She's very happy there and it seems like a great fit. When she was in the early stages of discernment, she also went to visit a super-strict Poor Clare Colettine monastery. (I'm not sure but I think it's the same monastery that FutureNun is going to enter.) And my friend discerned that the life of the Poor Clare Colettines wasn't for her, and that's fine, but she figured that out AFTER looking into them and not before.

If you were 34 and looking a 35-year-old age limit for entrance in the face, that'd be different. But you're not. You have time. Look around for a while. Have fun with it. Don't get too serious with any one community too quickly. And God might surprise you. God has a tendency to do that. God is tricsky!

Last month we bid farewell to nunsense, who had thought for some time that she only wanted a very very traditional strict Carmel. It turned out God was leading her towards a middle-of-the-road Carmel, that uses a modified habit (which is only sensible in the Australian heat!) and addresses the prioress as "Sister" rather than "Mother." God is tricksy sometimes.

Questions about 1990 or 1991 constitutions are important -- but at a later stage. Now just nose around and explore. And have fun with it!


[/quote]

Very wise Krissylou. In fact, I think that the general tone of all the comments in this thread has been very wise. Rather than say, for example, "I HAVE to choose a 1990 Carmel or I have to choose a 1991 Carmel," visit both kinds. Even two Carmels that follow the same constitution may be very different.

As Krissylou mentioned above, when I saw this thread, I immediately thought of Nunsense, who was sure she would never be happy in anything other than a very traditional strict Carmel. But, since she was reaching (or past) the upper age limit for many communities, she was starting to reach the stage of "Which Community will accept me?" rather than "Which Community do I want?" (Although, although knowning nunsense a little, I am sure she also continued to pray honestly and fervently that God's wishes for her be filled.) When nunsense came back from her long live-in this summer with the community she has now entered, she was glowing! I had never seen her so happy and fulfilled. The community was obviously a very loving and faithful community, who brought out the best in her. They are a 1991 Carmel, but there is nothing "hinky" or less than faithful about them.

Sometimes what a woman thinks she wants, or especially that she thinks she SHOULD want is the strictest community possible, so that she can feel she is giving God everything she can give. But, that doesn't mean that such a Community is right for her personality. God gives us certain temperamanents for reasons only he knows, and the best Commnity for a given woman isn't necessarily the most traditional, or the Community with the most demanding horarium, or the Community with the life she finds hardest to adjust to. Instead, from what I've read, it appears that God wants a woman discerning religious life to find a community where she feels "at home" and where she can serve God with her whole heart and be happy. She is going to serve God best if she finds a place where she "fits."

Religious life will always have very difficult challenges, even if a woman enters a community that "sleeps in" until 5:00 am, rather than getting up at 3:00 am. Some women will always be called to very stict religious lives, but there are other difficulties that are faced by any woman entering religious life, no matter what Order and Community a woman enters. And, some of those difficulties may be harder to overcome than keeping to an especially strict horarium. (Plus, for example, some Orders where the normal waking time is 5:30 might also require the Sisters to get up in the middle of the night several nights a week, because the Community has perpetual adoration, so the horarium may be stricter than it first appears.)

At least a few women from Phatmass who entered this summer posted that they went into the discernment process thinking they belonged in a certain type of community, and a particular Order, and later realized when they visited a Community of an Order they had never seriously considered before, that THIS was where God was calling them. The type of community a woman initially feels called to is probably a good place to begin the discernment process, but several women have said that their spiritual directors counseled them to also try communities of different types and different Orders. Some women knew immediately that the first Community they visited was the right one, and in the long run, that turned out to be the case. But, from reading discernment stories on Phatmass, it appears that it is more common that women visit several types of commnities--if only because ithat sometimes helps clarify for them the type of Community, or the Order, to which they are NOT called. Sometimes knowing "the wrong place" is something that can be a great help in knowing the "right place" when a woman finds it.

Discerning the right Order and community is far more serious than looking for the right college, or looking for a job. God willing, this is a lifetime commitment, so it is a decision to be made carefully. However, based on the Phatmass women who have entered religious life this year, although the decision is a very serious one, at some point God did make clear to them that a particular Community was where he wanted them.

Edited November 20, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[holly.o]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1290243933' post='2188190']
Sometimes what a woman thinks she wants, or especially that she thinks she SHOULD want is the strictest community possible, so that she can feel she is giving God everything she can give. But, that doesn't mean that such a Community is right for her personality. God gives us certain temperamanents for reasons only he knows, and the best Commnity for a given woman isn't necessarily the most traditional, or the Community with the most demanding horarium, or the Community with the life she finds hardest to adjust to. Instead, from what I've read, it appears that God wants a woman discerning religious life to find a community where she feels "at home" and where she can serve God with her whole heart and be happy. She is going to serve God best if she finds a place where she "fits."
[/quote]

I think this is very wise advice. Even married life has great challenges... I sometimes see women with tons of kids who homeschool them all and am amazed that they can do that! Even St. Teresa chose the convent because she saw that it's much easier to pursue holiness and God there than as a layperson. As Christians, we're called to live the life of the Cross. And every community has crosses. Maybe you get more sleep in one, but maybe the individuals there annoy you to no end and you have to constantly crucify your impatience! Also, fasting and little sleep may not be as much of a sacrifice to one person as a certain type of prayer or some other seemingly inconsequential thing.

As Indwelling Trinity told me once before she went back to her Carmel, what matters in religious life is that you belong entirely to Jesus. Actually this is true for anyone who follows Christ, but in a more immediate way for the consecrated life, I think. It means giving up your desires so you can be completely free for Him.

[littlellama17]

I was a postulant for one month in blessed Carmel. It was BEAUTIFUL. I lived with saints. It was sad to leave my dear little sisters as they're an aging community with a lack of vocations. Their last solemn profession was in the 80's and two sisters were transferred from Poland to create a community of 7. They're traditional with full habits, etc. I left to go to a Carmel that is more rural....this particular Carmel was urban and not in the best neighborhood. I'm telling you...we had to stop the Divine Office at least twice in each sitting because of the sirens or extremely loud rap music outside! I was looking for more solitude and peace....so I'm out scouting for another Carmel. It's truly an amazing experience being and living in Carmel and praying with Carmelites....when it was my turn to recite a decade of the Rosary and just hearing the nuns respond "Holy Mary, Mother of God..." was amazing...just praying with these wonderful holy women! You are not the same person when you leave Carmel. You carry it in your heart. You yearn for it every single day more and more. I cannot WAIT to step over threshold of Carmel again. I'll be praying for you Carmelite15!!!!! I watch your videos on youtube :-)

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1290114013' post='2187896']
Mother Superior at Brooklyn says you should wait five years before entering. That means you have plenty of time.[/quote]
Something I've been meaning to add here .. about waiting, you never know .. God may indeed want you to wait also and may have some things He wants of you in the meantime, as you prepare to enter .. We were already talking about this a bit via pm, but [url="http://www.secondexodus.com/html/patronsaints/stteresabenedicta.htm"]St. Teresa Benedicta[/url], Edith Stein, had to wait 12 years before entering Carmel. She did a lot during that time while developing her interior life, like teaching in an all girls school with some Dominican Sisters.

I know there are many Carmelites who entered young, and died young, and I know how it feels to be really eager to enter right away .. and if it's God's will, it will happen. But there are other Carmelite saints who had to wait that we don't hear about as much as the Little Flower for instance. [url="http://www.lasvegasmariancenter.com/madre.htm"]St. Maravillas of Jesus[/url] had a long wait also, and entered at 28. I have a little holy card/pamphlet of [url="http://www.catholictradition.org/Christ/golden-arrow.htm"]Sr. Mary of St. Peter[/url] (biography online of her [url="http://www.archive.org/details/lifeofsistermary00janvuoft"]here[/url] .. I have yet to read it) who received the Holy Face devotion, and on it it says, "After a five-year delay of trials and mortification she was accepted as a Postulant in the Carmel of Tours (her Confessor's choice) in November 1839 at age 23." One more example, the little Venerable who's my screen name She was very active in the apostolate before entering .. doing many spiritual and corporal works of mercy, like visiting the sick. She entered when she was 30 and died 4 years later, making her Solemn Profession on her death bed like St. Teresa of the Andes

So anyway, my point is .. you never know, it may be God's will that you wait. He has a totally unique and perfect plan for each of us! I've had to wait a pretty long while myself, and it's been tough, but I know the Lord has been working through all of this .. and I feel once I make it to Carmel, I will really be grateful! Okay, better get to sleep for now! God bless, Brandee! You're in my prayers!

Edited November 24, 2010 by Chiquitunga