How To Handle Difficult Situation

[CatherineM]

One of my classes this semester is Bioethics. As you can imagine, the coursework is filled with some of the most controversial topics there are in the church: contraception, abortion, euthanasia, etc. One of my classmates has been a royal pain. He's a middle aged Franciscan novice, but he's a complete dissenter on the Church's teachings on abortion and contraception. He has a science background and likes to take over the class, aggressively at times. Our professor is a quiet spoken, but imminently qualified man. He's taught the subject for years at the U of A and wrote a text book on genetic engineering. He's a devout Catholic who has walked the walk, ie. he and his wife couldn't have children without IVF, which is paid for here, but choose to adopt instead. The school has worked very hard in the last four years, since our new archbishop took over, to eliminate any professor who was too liberal or cafeteria leaning. Students, other than seminarians of course, can't be shoved out the door in the same way. Besides the Franciscan, there is a younger woman who is also a dissenter on contraception. They are both in my medieval history class too, and at break today, they were very loudly running the prof into the ground in front of about 17 seminarians who aren't in the bioethics class. They weren't saying that they disagreed with him or church teachings, but basically that he was a bad teacher. If nothing else, I know how precarious a professor's professional reputation can be, especially in a small school.

I would like to do something, but am clueless as to what. Standing up in class and shouting one of them down isn't exactly my style. I get so tired of dealing with people who call themselves Catholic, but disagree with the hard things. It's easy to agree with the easy stuff. There is another Franciscan in the class, one who is hard core. He's a Filipino who wears sandals only, and it was -10 and snowing today. That's my definition of hardcore. Unfortunately, he's also a small, quiet guy, and I just don't think he's the kind to stand up to a loud mouth either. I'd like to report him to the Dean, but I'm not sure if that is appropriate. I'm tempted to run him over in the parking lot, but I'm pretty sure that would get me kicked out of school. At the very least, I'd lose my scholarship.

[Micah]

That smells of elderberries, but I know how it is in school. Why not just simply state that this is the teaching of the Church; Catholics accept it. Non-Catholics don't. Period, end of story. A Franciscan novice, in a university nonetheless, has the intellect and the resources to do his own research and come to his own conclusions and no convincing is going to change someone's mind once they've made it. Sometimes it's best to draw a line in the sand and let people fall where they may.

[Luigi]

Catherine:

First of all, you [i]can't [/i]run him over. I know it would be the quickest, cheapest, easiest, most effective, and most permanent - although possibly not the least messy - solution. However, you'd lose your scholarship, be kicked out of school, and burn in hell for all eternity. And I [i]hate[/i] when that happens. I'm sure you do, too.

I would, in fact, talk to the dean - although it might be better to go to the department chair first - chain of command and all that. You always have good instincts, and I think you should follow your gut on this one. Reasons:

1. It will make you feel better to say something to someone rather than keeping it bottled up inside. It may not solve the problem, but you will have done what you could.
2. Teachers say, "If one student is asking the question, many others are probably thinking it." Same thing here - if this guy is starting to frost you, he's probably frosting a bunch of others. If you pipe up, you're probably speaking on behalf of timid classmates as well.
3. This guy is going to be trouble in the school sooner or later - in this class or some other. The sooner administration knows about it, the sooner they can start keeping track of his antics, and the sooner they can advise him to find a school that is "a better fit for his educational goals," if you catch my drift.

On the other hand, maybe you [i]should[/i] just run him over and then go to confession - to a liberal Franciscan! (To quote Senator Foghorn Leghorn, "That's a yolk, son - a yolk!")

[Ed Normile]

Just pray for them, you can not change their minds but with God all things are possible.

ed

[Archaeology cat]

I think I'd write to the dean to give a glowing report about the professor, and how well he teaches the subject even in the midst of opposition and that he truly lives out his faith, truly an inspiration. And of course, pray a lot. Maybe a quiet word in class if those people speak up against Church teaching, I don't know. I know I'm loathe to speak up in classes/groups, too. It just isn't my comfort zone.

[CatherineM]

The only person who has spoke up so far is a Seminarian from Manitoba who is already a deacon. He did ask him loudly once why he was here. It is very difficult to get a word in because he is very loud, has a German accent, and doesn't seem to need to stop to take a breath.

I think I am going to follow AC's advice and write a nice letter about him to the dean. It's such a small school, that we really don't have heads of departments. I was going to say there was trouble to pre-warn him, but a glowing report that he is standing up for church teachings against strong opposition, is a great idea.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Sounds like this Franciscan has a formation issue. I wonder if his superiors are aware of his stance on these issues? What is really needed is for someone to work with him one on one, in a less hostile environment, and really seek out truth. But if he is unwilling to sincerely seek truth in a matter, there is an issue of pride that needs to be worked out and may be an obstacle to his further formation.

[CatherineM]

He doesn't believe he is wrong. He is constantly asking for scientific proof in the class as to when the soul enters, or about the pill being an abortificant. He has no desire to listen to anyone about anything really. I'd like to talk to his superiors, but it really isn't my place. The Franciscans here are really a good order. They have lots of novices. Sometimes I think that orders have been under so much attack, that they let people in that wouldn't have passed muster decades ago. This is also what the novitiate is about. I sent my email off, and now I get to wait and see if I get a response.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1290016085' post='2187642']
He doesn't believe he is wrong. He is constantly asking for scientific proof in the class as to when the soul enters, or about the pill being an abortificant. He has no desire to listen to anyone about anything really. I'd like to talk to his superiors, but it really isn't my place. The Franciscans here are really a good order. They have lots of novices. Sometimes I think that orders have been under so much attack, that they let people in that wouldn't have passed muster decades ago. This is also what the novitiate is about. I sent my email off, and now I get to wait and see if I get a response.
[/quote]

I, too, went to school with seminarians for my undergraduate. The philosophy department at my school was linked with the seminary pre-theologate program. Anyways, I remember once feeling the need to send an e-mail to the Vice-Rector concerning the behavior of one of the seminarians... a really nice fellow, very likeable. But he was [i]constantly[/i] on the university side of campus, without his clerics, hanging around with a bunch of girls. The tipping point for me was when I realized that a bunch of the college girls [i]didn't even know he wasn't a seminarian![/i] So I sent an e-mail to the Vice-Rector, expressing my concerns for this young man's formation. It was difficult to do because I didn't want to be a "tattler" but at the same time, I really felt as though his superiors should know something about it because it was so unhealthy.

Granted, in my situation, none of his brother seminarians or professors knew about the situation, so there was no one else who could have expressed their concern. In your situation, either the professor or other students will likely make the news known to the superiors. I can't imagine that is something that will go unnoticed for very long.

[rhetoricfemme]

I don't have anything new to offer, really. Just that I'll be praying for you and your professor and classmates that this gets resolved. I think Luigi and Archeology Cat were pretty spot on with their advice, and that you sending a letter was a great idea. Maybe you could talk to some of your other classmates who are clearly bothered, but not feeling like speaking up to this guy, and they too could write positive letters about your professor.

[let_go_let_God]

I agree with the letter. Also you can remind them that when it comes to the class tests, someone is right and someone is wrong. I'd bet that it's the professor that's right.

God bless-
LGLG

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1289967041' post='2187515']
One of my classes this semester is Bioethics. As you can imagine, the coursework is filled with some of the most controversial topics there are in the church: contraception, abortion, euthanasia, etc. One of my classmates has been a royal pain. He's a middle aged Franciscan novice, but he's a complete dissenter on the Church's teachings on abortion and contraception. He has a science background and likes to take over the class, aggressively at times. Our professor is a quiet spoken, but imminently qualified man. He's taught the subject for years at the U of A and wrote a text book on genetic engineering. He's a devout Catholic who has walked the walk, ie. he and his wife couldn't have children without IVF, which is paid for here, but choose to adopt instead. The school has worked very hard in the last four years, since our new archbishop took over, to eliminate any professor who was too liberal or cafeteria leaning. Students, other than seminarians of course, can't be shoved out the door in the same way. Besides the Franciscan, there is a younger woman who is also a dissenter on contraception. They are both in my medieval history class too, and at break today, they were very loudly running the prof into the ground in front of about 17 seminarians who aren't in the bioethics class. They weren't saying that they disagreed with him or church teachings, but basically that he was a bad teacher. If nothing else, I know how precarious a professor's professional reputation can be, especially in a small school.

I would like to do something, but am clueless as to what. Standing up in class and shouting one of them down isn't exactly my style. I get so tired of dealing with people who call themselves Catholic, but disagree with the hard things. It's easy to agree with the easy stuff. There is another Franciscan in the class, one who is hard core. He's a Filipino who wears sandals only, and it was -10 and snowing today. That's my definition of hardcore. Unfortunately, he's also a small, quiet guy, and I just don't think he's the kind to stand up to a loud mouth either. I'd like to report him to the Dean, but I'm not sure if that is appropriate. I'm tempted to run him over in the parking lot, but I'm pretty sure that would get me kicked out of school. At the very least, I'd lose my scholarship.
[/quote]
Catherine, I understand you don't want to get up and have a shouting match, but remember talking about your first case when you made the judge cry? You are a gifted lawyer, so use it to your advantage. Put on your innocent face and ask him why he is a catholic if he disagrees with the dogmas and doctrines of the church?

[fides' Jack]

Wow - haven't been here in a while, but what a good topic! Or bad one, depending on how you look at it.


If it was me, I'd probably want to slap him. I'm not sure how much trouble that could get you in, however. I know you said you aren't really the confrontational type, but if someone did that to me I'd definitely think about what I had done to deserve it.


In any case, I'll pray for a good resolution to this.

[CatherineM]

I'm always up for a good confrontation, but I try not to do it at school. With my background, I usually know more about the subjects than any other student (and occasionally the profs too), so I have trained myself to not take over classes.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1290016085' post='2187642']
He doesn't believe he is wrong. He is constantly asking for scientific proof in the class as to when the soul enters, or about the pill being an abortificant. He has no desire to listen to anyone about anything really. I'd like to talk to his superiors, but it really isn't my place. The Franciscans here are really a good order. They have lots of novices. Sometimes I think that orders have been under so much attack, that they let people in that wouldn't have passed muster decades ago. This is also what the novitiate is about. I sent my email off, and now I get to wait and see if I get a response.
[/quote]

Hmm. Do his superiors know his views? I'm kinda surprised that they allowed him in ...

As for scientific proof ... he should know better, if he has a scientific background. Science can't prove (or disprove, for that matter) that the soul even exists (at least, the spiritual soul). I'm assuming that he's young and/or nieve? I mean, really!

Science can show, however, that there is an animative principle, the [i]anima[/i], which is translated from Latin to mean a "soul" that is not necessarily spiritual (Aquinas distinguished between "spirit" and "soul", stating that trees and animals had souls or animas; humans had souls that were also spirits). Science, as well as simple common sense, knows that there is a difference between a living body, and a dead one; a living tree, and a dead one; a living zygote/embryo/fetus/baby, and a dead one. Heck, pro-choicers recognize the difference; if they didn't, they wouldn't be trying to kill it, now would they? That difference is the animative principle, the "anima" or soul. Science can further show that once sperm meets egg, the resulting zygote is indeed alive; and further, is indeed its own life. [b]If it's alive, then at least according to Aquinas, it has a soul, ipso facto. According to Aquinas, to be alive MEANT to have a soul.[/b]

And here, I thought that Franciscans and Dominicans were friends ...

Edited November 20, 2010 by mommas_boy