St. Pio Of Pietrelcina (Aka Padre Pio), Confession, And Modesty

[Dave]

As much as I admire St. Pio of Pietrelcina, more commonly known as Padre Pio, I'm a bit confused by some of his actions. Now, I know he had the gift of reading souls in confession and would deny absolution to anyone who he felt wasn't truly repentant. However, he'd also flat-out refuse to hear the confession of anybody who was dressed immodestly. He explained to his spiritual director that it was God who always told him when to deny confession or absolution to someone and that it always hurt him to do so. Well, St. Pio's idea of modesty was for women to have skirts that fell at least [b]8 [/b]inches below the knee. And he definitely deplored pantaloons on women. I even heard (though it may be just a rumor) that he even denied absolution to a dress shop owner who also sold pantaloons for women until the penitent promised to stop selling them.

I know St. Pio wasn't the Magisterium and that even saints make mistakes, but he claimed God told him whom to refuse confession. I could understand if women came to him dressed in miniskirts or really tight pantaloons, but it seems we're talking dresses that would still at least cover the knee. And I know folks who think that if Padre Pio believed that skirts less than 8 inches below the knee are immodest, then it must be Gospel truth. I'm confused! Thoughts?

[kafka]

I'm not sure what Saint Pio's intention or reasoning is, however I think he may have done this or may have been moved by God to do this, to teach that women should dress substantially different than men to express their God-given role as women which is substantially different than that of a man's role.

notice in Deuteronomy:

{22:5} A woman shall not be clothed with manly apparel, nor shall a man make use of feminine apparel. For whoever does these things is abominable with God.

so I think it is more than modesty. I think it also pertains to the role of a woman. She should dress differently than a men to express her feminity.

[Dave]

[quote name='kafka' timestamp='1289871632' post='2187330']
I'm not sure what Saint Pio's intention or reasoning is, however I think he may have done this or may have been moved by God to do this, to teach that women should dress substantially different than men to express their God-given role as women which is substantially different than that of a man's role.

notice in Deuteronomy:

{22:5} A woman shall not be clothed with manly apparel, nor shall a man make use of feminine apparel. For whoever does these things is abominable with God.

so I think it is more than modesty. I think it also pertains to the role of a woman. She should dress differently than a men to express her feminity.
[/quote]

But I wasn't talking about cross-dressing. When I mentioned women wearing pantaloons, I was referring to specifically [b]women's pantaloons[/b].

Let's not turn this into a debate on whether or not women should wear pantaloons. It's not the topic of this thread, and besides, that topic has already been debated to death on here.


Edited to add:
Btw, I just now noticed the f i l t e r renders "p a n t s" as "pantaloons." Let me make it clear that in all cases I meant to say "p a n t s," not "pantaloons."

Edited November 16, 2010 by Dave

[kafka]

That was my understanding of what Pio did, so I posted it.

I did not intend to start a debate. But as you wish. It is your thread.

So be it.

[Seven77]

Dave… I've often thought of St. Padre Pio sending people away and wondered would he ever tell me to go way and come back later because I forgot to confess something? I'm certain that he would treat the scrupulous, like me, differently. But... but the examples you gave are like nothing at all, hardly any kind of venial sin... are you sure you got this information from reliable sources? or perhaps from some kind of extremist group?

[Tally Marx]

What is modesty?
I've always understood it as a protection of one's dignity as a man or woman. Modesty, ultimately, protects us from the lustful gaze of others.
That's how I've always understood it, anyway.
By this definition, one cannot say that there is a single line of clothing that is the perfect level of "modest" for everyone, in every society, everywhere.
Modesty, by this definition, will chance according to society. For example:
Muslim women cannot be modest without being covered from head to toe, because that is the society they live in.
However, in America, it is possible to be modest while wearing a tee-shirt and jeans. Guys in America are used to seeing girls' ankles and faces, so seeing these doesn't rouse their passion, if you get my meaning.
I think this definition fits well, because Adam and Ever didn't feel the need for clothing until after lust had entered their lives. They could be perfectly modest running around in their birthday suits... there was no such thing as lust. They didn't need to protect themselves.

Back to Padre Pio:
Maybe, at the time these women were wearing these sorts of skirts and shirts, and in the place they were wearing them, it was not considered modest.
What is modest for us in the present day and place, just may not have been modest for them in their day and place.

....is this making any sense?


A BIG fan of Padre Pio,
~Tally Marx

[CatherineM]

If modesty requires that you not set off lust in someone else, about the only thing that would work is gaining 300 lbs. Of course then you might be lusted after by a fatty-chaser.

[dominicansoul]

Padre Pio was in a different time, in a different place, in a different culture...


in his time, these were extreme faux paus...women who dressed in this objectionable fashion were definitely trying to send a message, or stand up for what Padre Pio felt was NOT virtuous...

[truthfinder]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1290356197' post='2188352']
Padre Pio was in a different time, in a different place, in a different culture...


in his time, these were extreme faux paus...women who dressed in this objectionable fashion were definitely trying to send a message, or stand up for what Padre Pio felt was NOT virtuous...
[/quote]

Yes, very much a different culture. This was a small Italian town made famous by a holy man, now saint. To go looking anything but you're most modest would have probably seen as not only an attempt at being immodest but also to bring attention to yourself in general.

I also read a book about Padre Pio, and the writer claims that many years after his death, the older women of the town would still hit women with their canes if the felt they were being immodest.

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1290318132' post='2188315']
If modesty requires that you not set off lust in someone else, about the only thing that would work is gaining 300 lbs. Of course then you might be lusted after by a fatty-chaser.
[/quote]

Well, it's the [i]attempt[/i] not to inspire lust in another. Of course one will never be 100% successful, but they must still try.
The opposite of modesty--immodesty--could then be defined as the attempt to inspire lust in another. Dress standards for this, too, would change with society, so that anyone who dresses any more revealingly than the social norm would be said to be looking for attention... and would certainly be more prone to getting it even if they weren't expressly looking for it. dominicansoul said it best: it was a different time, and a different place.

[Sarah147]

This has been a very interesting thread and I really wondered what people would say. I can see about it being a different time and place. I was recently even thinking about the tribes in other countries, where they wear very little and the women and men walk around shirtless. That's there culture, and so maybe it's not a chastity issue for them per se.