Occasion Of Sin

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1289813878' post='2187222']
A thing is for sure: it is much easier to fight and win immediately a temptation than to give up a sin that has become an established habit.
[/quote]

Of course. I'm sure nearly all of us have established habits of some form or another that impede our progress toward holiness. It doesn't have to be the easy sins to point out like adultery and pornography.

[Hinter dem Horizont]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1289876280' post='2187362']
Of course. I'm sure nearly all of us have established habits of some form or another that impede our progress toward holiness. It doesn't have to be the easy sins to point out like adultery and pornography.
[/quote]

I'm sure we all have little sins as well that are harder to pick out. For example, cursing at our parents or children. Getting angry too easily. Sitting back and letting your life fall apart with no care.

These are much easier to handle though and with time we can correct these mistakes or sins.

[Ed Normile]

I think you are missing the point here, its not only if you find yourself attracted to another woman, a married man should not be alone with another woman no matter how well intentioned or how disinterested he is or how well in control he is. This is allowing for the chance of scandal, not only the sin he may engage in but the sins he may open the door to such as gossip " ed was alone with another woman " may be true and totally harmless, but the gossip is a sin on the soul of those who participate in it and if your wife heard that it could hurt her or your marriage by filling her with doubt and anxiety and breaking trust. The devil awaits these oppurtunities, how would any man feel if his wife stopped to have an innocent ham sandwhich on the way home from work with another man in a public restaurant, even if that man was married or single it opens the door to doubts and worries things that are damaging to a relationship.

I am from a large Irish family, seriously as far as we go back there is no other ethnic group in our family line, so I know about alcoholics very well having seen it destroy the lives of many in my family. Alcoholics need not go to a bar, most drink alone as it is all theirs, they may start out in a bar but as money gets scarce end up solo drinkers and its not just booze, they will drink mouthwash, after shave and even rubbing alcohol to get the buzz they need. Their " near occasion of sin " is 24 / 7 and anywhere they can obtain anything to drink.

ed

[Hinter dem Horizont]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1289977272' post='2187594']
I think you are missing the point here, its not only if you find yourself attracted to another woman, a married man should not be alone with another woman no matter how well intentioned or how disinterested he is or how well in control he is. This is allowing for the chance of scandal, not only the sin he may engage in but the sins he may open the door to such as gossip " ed was alone with another woman " may be true and totally harmless, but the gossip is a sin on the soul of those who participate in it and if your wife heard that it could hurt her or your marriage by filling her with doubt and anxiety and breaking trust. The devil awaits these oppurtunities, how would any man feel if his wife stopped to have an innocent ham sandwhich on the way home from work with another man in a public restaurant, even if that man was married or single it opens the door to doubts and worries things that are damaging to a relationship.

I am from a large Irish family, seriously as far as we go back there is no other ethnic group in our family line, so I know about alcoholics very well having seen it destroy the lives of many in my family. Alcoholics need not go to a bar, most drink alone as it is all theirs, they may start out in a bar but as money gets scarce end up solo drinkers and its not just booze, they will drink mouthwash, after shave and even rubbing alcohol to get the buzz they need. Their " near occasion of sin " is 24 / 7 and anywhere they can obtain anything to drink.

ed
[/quote]

Good point, mate. Scandal can easily spread like an infection and destroy marriages just by being alone for a moment which did not even seem all that for both people.

I was born in Ireland so I know all about how damaging and destructive alcohol is! I have alcoholics in the family and friends who have alcoholics. I never thought of the fact of how much money alcohol costs and what lengths they would go to get the buzz. So, basically, if you're an alcoholic, which means you're predisposed to become an alcoholic. Alcohol abuse is known to be genetic. So, they should not touch it in the first place.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Hinter dem Horizont

[MithLuin]

I agree that it's good to avoid occasions of sin and the appearance of scandal, but....

Seriously? Once you're married, you should [i]never[/i] be alone with a woman? (Or, if you are the wife, [i]never[/i] be alone with a man?) Does this mean you can't have friends of the opposite sex? Is that a 'temptation'? What if your friend isn't very attractive? I understand setting boundaries and avoiding temptations, but I don't think the boundaries should take over your reason for having relationships with other human beings.

Here's a scenario. About a year or so after my sister got married, her husband's best friend moved down to their state and needed a place to stay. My sister and her husband only had one baby, so they easily had a guest room that wasn't being used. So, it made sense all around to let the friend stay with them until he could get enough saved to move out on his own. Was it the easiest thing on their marriage to have someone else living in the house? No, maybe not. But it was a good deed to help out a friend, and the situation was temporary. Were there times when he was home and my brother-in-law was out at work? Sure. I don't think that's a horrible scandal, and if the neighbors talked, that's kinda their problem.

He did move out before my brother-in-law deployed to Afghanistan. I think it would have been more than a little inappropriate for him to live there during the 7 months my sister was on her own with the babies. But I didn't think it was weird for him to stop by and visit my sister during that time. If there is no temptation, it's not an occasion of sin, and just because someone somewhere could construe it as scandal doesn't mean it's really a problem. In a military community, I'm sure everyone knows when someone's husband is deployed, and there are likely to be unkind thoughts if [i]any[/i] male stops by....even if he's just your brother.

I have a close friend who is married, and she was a bit offended when one of her guy friends wouldn't go with her somewhere because it 'wouldn't be appropriate'. To which she was like....ummmm....no offense, but my husband trusts me and there's nothing improper going on here. She didn't like the implication that she was being tempted by adultery. True, I make [i]some[/i] effort not to be alone with her husband, but that's because he's my ex-bf and I don't want her to even have to wonder if he somewhere deep inside secretly still carries a torch for me (he doesn't). But that wouldn't stop me from taking a walk with him when she's not there (for instance).

Every time a married woman goes to confession, she's alone with a man she's not married to. I don't see a problem with this, even if people [i]have[/i] used the confessional inappropriately at times.

[CatherineM]

I choose not to be alone with men who aren't my husband. As an example, I won't have workmen like plumbers in the house when my husband isn't home. I think it is just prudent. Besides, they'd rather talk to the man of the house even if said man doesn't know which end of a pair of pliers is the sharp end.

[Christie_M]

[quote name='Hinter dem Horizont' timestamp='1289999320' post='2187607']
Good point, mate. Scandal can easily spread like an infection and destroy marriages just by being alone for a moment which did not even seem all that for both people.

...[/quote]

And it doesn't even have to be a marriage that can be destroid. My best friend is a guy, and when he was dating during the summer, there was [i]so[/i] much gossip going around that we couldn't even have a [b]work related conversation in a group of people[/b] without something getting started.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1290380244' post='2188428']
I choose not to be alone with men who aren't my husband. As an example, I won't have workmen like plumbers in the house when my husband isn't home. I think it is just prudent. Besides, they'd rather talk to the man of the house even if said man doesn't know which end of a pair of pliers is the sharp end.
[/quote]

I didn't take that precaution when I was married. But, then again, I think I was usually able to talk my ex into being the one deal with workmen.

Now that I'm single, I've spent LOTS of time alone with workmen. Heck, I spent more alone time with plumbers, cleaners, heating guys, et al just in the past week than I have on dates in the past couple of years. LOL But, for whatever reason, I've never had trouble with workmen. I think I just don't give out an "I'm available" vibe.

When I was working, I traveled a LOT, and many times traveled alone with a male colleague, even the CEO once. It was just accepted by everyone at work that men and women traveled together, and no one ever gossiped about it that I ever heard. It was just part of the job, and if I didn't like it, I would have had to find another job. Sometimes I think people can make too much of men and women traveling together. For us, it was just part of business, and I NEVER had any male workmate misunderstand. In fact, people would have thought I was very strange if I'd had an issue with it.

I also traveled alone a lot--both for business and pleasure. Traveling alone early in my career was when I learned the "I'm not available vibe," but, of course, it was easier when I was married and wearing a wedding ring. Again, I never had any problems. Not once.

It was funny, after my divorce, I had learned the "I'm not available" vibe SO well that when I was in a situation, such as a party with friends, when I would have been open to going out with a guy I met, I didn't know how to give out the correct "I'm available" vibe. I finally learned to flirt, but it took awhile, and I still find it VERY difficult. As a result, I've never had any problem with unwanted guys approaching me.

And, now that I look like someone's "soccer mom" (although I have no children) or the local librarian, that makes me pretty well invisible to anyone of the male sex who might be appropriate. Oh well. I guess it would be worse if I had guys hitting on me all the time. I wouldn't know. I'm not ugly, but I'm not the "type" guys hit on. Whatever.