Salvation

[Winchester]

When one disagrees with a teaching, one can either not adopt the teaching or pretend it teaches something else. I've always chosen the former.

[Apotheoun]

The quotation below, which is taken from St. Gregory of Nyssa's treatise entitled [i]Antirrheticus adversus Apollinarium[/i], is representative of the teaching of the Eastern Fathers on salvation:


[size="3"]"The Father raises the dead and gives them life, and the Son gives life to whom He will." — We do not conclude from this that some are cast out from the life-giving will; but since we have heard and we believe that all things of the Father belong to the Son, we obviously also see the will of the Father, as one of all these, in the Son. If then the Father’s will is in the Son, and the Father, as the Apostle says, "wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" [1 Tim. 2:4] it is plain that He who has everything that is the Father’s, and has the whole Father in Him along with other good things of the Father, has fully also the salvific will. Since then He does not lack the perfect will, it is altogether clear that those whom the Father wants to give life to, He too gives life to, not being lesser in a will that loves men, as Apollinarius says that He wants to give life to some, not to all. [b]For not because of the Lord’s will are some saved but others are lost: for then the cause of their ruin would come from that will. But by the choice of those who receive the word, it happens that some are saved or lost.[/b] ([i]Antirrheticus adversus Apollinarium[/i], no. 29)[/size]

[Guest Jon_Irenicus]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='15 June 2010 - 04:17 PM' timestamp='1276636649' post='2129464']
The quotation below, which is taken from St. Gregory of Nyssa's treatise entitled [i]Antirrheticus adversus Apollinarium[/i], is representative of the teaching of the Eastern Fathers on salvation:


[size="3"]"The Father raises the dead and gives them life, and the Son gives life to whom He will." — We do not conclude from this that some are cast out from the life-giving will; but since we have heard and we believe that all things of the Father belong to the Son, we obviously also see the will of the Father, as one of all these, in the Son. If then the Father's will is in the Son, and the Father, as the Apostle says, "wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" [1 Tim. 2:4] it is plain that He who has everything that is the Father's, and has the whole Father in Him along with other good things of the Father, has fully also the salvific will. Since then He does not lack the perfect will, it is altogether clear that those whom the Father wants to give life to, He too gives life to, not being lesser in a will that loves men, as Apollinarius says that He wants to give life to some, not to all. [b]For not because of the Lord's will are some saved but others are lost: for then the cause of their ruin would come from that will. But by the choice of those who receive the word, it happens that some are saved or lost.[/b] ([i]Antirrheticus adversus Apollinarium[/i], no. 29)[/size]
[/quote]

So for St. Gregory, it is man's will that is the final determiner of his Salvation. In other words, he teaches that "Salvation is of the will of Man".

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Jon_Irenicus' date='15 June 2010 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1276660363' post='2129666']
So for St. Gregory, it is man's will that is the final determiner of his Salvation. In other words, he teaches that "Salvation is of the will of Man".
[/quote]
The Eastern Church Fathers believe in synergism not monergism. Moreover, they would reject completely the fatalism of Calvin, whose views on predestination and free will involve a Monothelite confusion of person and nature.

[Selah]

Todd, I meant to give that a plus! I hate this computer, argh!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Selah' date='26 June 2010 - 01:20 PM' timestamp='1277576400' post='2134566']
Todd, I meant to give that a plus! I hate this computer, argh!
[/quote]
Fixed.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='25 May 2010 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1274826523' post='2117630']
I am a Romanist.
[/quote]
+1 and I, too, am a Romanist.

Further, the Church does indeed have authority over Scripture. Look what happened when the protestants thought they did: they left the 'superfluous' books of it on the cutting room floor. If it weren't for us keeping the original, they probably would've whittled it down to an illustrated pamphlet by now.

Edited June 26, 2010 by USAirwaysIHS

[MichaelFilo]

I hope this hasn't died, since it is so interesting. You see, to believe is the work of God, after all, who can know God as He has revealed Himself to us on his own? No one. However, the belief that it is a personal decision to accept Jesus Christ, which is an act of Faith, but an act that you must initiate (how many know they are called and do not go.) Therefore, could you agree that Salvation comes from an acceptance of God's grace?

Also, there is a lack of charity here on the Catholic side. There are arguments being made, let us address them.

[thessalonian]

faith and works are a product of grace. Grace is given in many ways and there are many forms. Sanctifying grace come through the sacraments. Actual grace is given by God to direct us toward certain acts. Natural graces are inherent in nature and provide for all. Habitual graces come about by performing good habbits. Gratuitous graces are given to show God's glory, such as the speaking in tongues in Acts 10.