Salvation

[megamattman1]

forget the other polls!

[CatholicCrusader]

mega,

[quote]Money never made a man happy yet, nor will it. There is nothing in its nature to produce happiness. The more a man has, the more he wants. Instead of filling a vacuum, it makes one. Ben Franklin [/quote]

Franklin is the last person from whom I would take advice...a stauch deist and one who lived a completely immoral life (especially in chastity). (Not to say he is incorrect with this topic.)

God bless.

[crusader1234]

catholiccrusader, why bother posting that? if the quote is good i dont understand the problem. anwyays i receive salavtion through faith in jesus, as well as living out the ten commandments and going to confession and living out the sacraments. communion, etc. i personally find confessino to be the most salvation affirming of anything though.

[ironmonk]

Faith and Works bestow Grace.

We are saved because Jesus died for us, and no other.

Faith is a gift from God.
We cannot work our way to Heaven, but doing good works proves that we are living the way Christ wants us to.

[b]St. Matt 16:27[/b] [color=red]For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then [b]he will repay everyone according to his conduct[/b]. [/color]

[b]2 Corin 11:15 [/b]
So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. [b]Their end will correspond to their deeds[/b].

[b]Eph 4:8[/b] For [u][b]by grace you have been saved [/b][/u][i][u]through [/u][/i][i][b]faith[/b][/i], and[i][b] this is not from you; it is the gift of God[/b][/i];
[b]9 [/b]it is not from works, so no one may boast.
[b]10 [/b]For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the [b]good works [/b]that God has prepared in advance, [b]that we should live in them[/b].


By wanting to do and doing evil works we reject Christ.


I hope that helps explain it better.

Here are some links if not:
[url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/entiretoc1.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/entiretoc1.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt2art4p2.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt2art4p2.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect1chpt1art2.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect1chpt1art2.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/salvation.asp"]http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/salvation.asp[/url]

That's a start.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Damiano]

*["...anwyays i receive salavtion through faith in jesus, as well as living out the ten commandments and going to confession and living out the sacraments. communion, etc. i personally find confessino to be the most salvation affirming of anything though."]

***You allege that you receive salvation through faith in Jesus + living out the ten commandments + going to confession + living out the sacraments. The Bible says otherwise.

The Bible says that you must see yourself for what you really are...a sinner. You may not like to hear that but it does not change the fact that you are: "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" [Romans 3:23]..."As it is written, there is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God" [Romans 3:10-11].

You must repent (that is, turn away from your sins). Repentance is NOT making a resolution to do better...and it is NOT conviction of sin, for a person can be convinced that he is wrong and still NOT REPENT. Repentance is a CHANGE of mind...a CHANGE of heart...and it results in a CHANGE in action: "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the righteous man his thoughts, for He will abundantly pardon" [Isaiah 55:7].

Jesus Christ came to redeem lost sinners. Because of this you must trust in the COMPLETED WORK [John 19:30] that Jesus accomplished for you on the cross. You must believe that Jesus Christ took YOUR PLACE on the cross, died for YOUR SINS (although He never sinned) and was RESURRECTED BODILY from the DEAD [Romans 10:8-11]

Salvation is a GIFT of God and you cannot EARN it by your GOOD WORKS [Ephesians 2:8-9]. God gives it to you FREE when you place your FAITH (i.e., trust) in the COMPLETED WORK [John 19:30] of the Lord Jesus Christ (on your behalf) as the satisfaction (or payment) for your sins [Romans 6:23]. He died as your SUBSTITUTE and took the punishment for your sins upon Himself (even though He never sinned) and became your SACRIFICE to satisfy the righteousness required by God [1 John 2:2]. Now because salvation is a Gift that God offers you FREELY...you must RECEIVE IT [Revelations 3:20;John 1:12,13] to be SAVED...that is, you must REACH OUT in faith and receive the GIFT of God (i.e., Jeus Christ---John 1:12,13;Romans 6:23): "For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL life through Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23]..."In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His GRACE (i.e., unmerited favor)" [Ephesians 1:7].

Finally---to be saved from the consequences of your sins you must receive Jesus Christ (who is God's GIFT to you) PERSONALLY as YOUR SAVIOUR by faith and trust in the COMPLETED WORK that He accomplished for YOU on Calvary's cross. Rejection of God's PROVISION of salvation through Jesus Christ is eternal DEATH in Hell [1 John 5:10-13]. The choice is yours alone to make. My prayer is that you will accept God's precious GIFT of salvation...and that receiving it you will experience that PEACE which surpasses all understanding [Philippians 4:7].

Damiano

[Nihil Obstat]

Oh dear.

[Apotheoun]

I really missed Stormstopper during his absence.

[Apotheoun]

Sorry, I should have said . . . I really MISSED Stormstopper during HIS absence.

[Apotheoun]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ckoCBtXvU[/media]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Damiano' date='25 April 2010 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1272226220' post='2099851']
[b]YOU[/b] must repent (that is, turn away from your sins). Repentance is not making a resolution to do better . . . and it is not conviction of sin, for a person can be convinced that he is wrong and still not repent. Repentance is a change of mind . . . a change of heart . . . and it results in a change in action: "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the righteous man his thoughts, for He will abundantly pardon."

Jesus Christ came to redeem lost sinners. Because of this [b]YOU[/b] must trust in the completed work that Jesus accomplished for you on the cross. [b]YOU[/b] must believe that Jesus Christ took your place on the cross, died for your sins (although He never sinned) and was resurrected bodily from the dead.

Salvation is a gift of God and you cannot earn it by your good works. God gives it to you freely when [b]YOU[/b] place [b]YOUR[/b] faith (i.e., trust) in the completed work of the Lord Jesus Christ (on your behalf) as the satisfaction (or payment) for your sins. He died as your substitute and took the punishment for your sins upon Himself (even though He never sinned) and became your sacrifice to satisfy the righteousness required by God. Now because salvation is a gift that God offers you freely . . . [b]YOU[/b] must receive it to be saved . . . that is, [b]YOU[/b] must reach out in faith and receive the gift of God (i.e., Jesus Christ): "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" . . . "In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace" (i.e., unmerited favor).

Finally---to be saved from the consequences of your sins [b]YOU[/b] must receive Jesus Christ (who is God's gift to you) personally as your savior by faith and trust in the completed work that He accomplished for you on Calvary's cross. Rejection of God's provision of salvation through Jesus Christ is eternal death in Hell. [b]THE CHOICE IS YOURS ALONE TO MAKE[/b]. My prayer is that [b]YOU[/b] will accept God's precious gift of salvation . . . and that receiving it you will experience that peace which surpasses all understanding.
[/quote]
Look at all the things that you say [b]YOU[/b] must do in order to be saved. Funny, and you accuse Catholics of teaching a form of salvation by human effort and choice.

I especially like your comment, "[b]THE CHOICE IS YOURS [u]ALONE[/u] TO MAKE[/b]," which is perhaps the most Pelagian comment I have ever seen posted here at Phatmass.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 April 2010 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1272228714' post='2099867']
Look at all the things that you say [b]YOU[/b] must do in order to be saved. Funny, and you accuse Catholics of teaching a form of salvation by human effort and choice.

I especially like your comment, "[b]THE CHOICE IS YOURS [u]ALONE[/u] TO MAKE[/b]," which is perhaps the most Pelagian comment I have ever seen posted here at Phatmass.
[/quote]

[Ed Normile]

Obedience, Faith, hope, and works. This all ties in to living your life to be worthy of salvation.

ed

[Damiano]

*["Faith and Works bestow Grace..."]

***You are in error. Salvation is by GRACE (i.e., the FREE and UNDESERVED favor of God exercised toward the undeserving sinner) through FAITH [Ephesians 2:8]. Faith involves knowledge of the Gospel [Romans 10:14], acknowledgment of the truth of its message, and PERSONAL RECEPTION of the Saviour [John 1:12]. Works cannot save [Ephesians 2:9], but good works ALWAYS accompany salvation [Ephesians 2:10;James 2:17].

NOTE: The born again believer (Christian) produces good works as naturally as the grape vine produces grapes. They are a part of his very nature [2 Corinthians 5:17]. He performs them not to GET saved...but because he IS saved. The distinquishing mark of a SAINT [i.e., EVERY true believer...EVERY born again Christian] is NOT what he has done FOR God---but, rather, what God has done FOR him!

*["Faith is a gift from God..."]

***You are in error. Salvation is the GIFT of God: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God" [Ephesians 2:8].

NOTE: In John 4:10 we read the following: "Jesus answered and said unto her, 'If thou knewest the GIFT of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee LIVING WATER.'" This LIVING WATER is the New Life through the Holy Spirit [Jeremiah 2:13;Zechariah 14:8;John 7:37-39]. Salvation is a GIFT from Jesus Christ, the Son of God and Messiah of Israel. Notice that Christ asked the woman to RECEIVE Him and His GIFT without any prerequisite change in her life. After she BELIEVED, and BECAUSE she BELIEVED, her way of living would be CHANGED!

*["We cannot work our way to Heaven, but doing good works proves that we are living the way Christ wants us to..."]

***Good works, of course, are pleasing to God, and they have an important and necessary place in the lfe of a Christian. They naturally follow if one has true faith, and they are performed out of love and gratitude to God for the great salvation that has been bestowed. If any professing Christian does not obey the Bible and live a good Christian life, that is proof that his faith is not sincere. Good works, in other words, are NOT the cause and basis of salvation...but rather the FRUITS and PROOF of salvation: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" [Titus 3:5]. NOTE: Personal salvation has never been by works [Ephesians 2:8-9;Romans 3:19-28]...but is according to His mercy [Ephesians 2:4;1 Timothy 1:13;1 Peter 1:3;2:10]...the washing of regeneration [Ezekiel 36:25-31;Ephesians 5:26-27;James 1:18;1 Peter 1:23]. Salvation brings divine cleansing from sin and the gift of a new, Spirit-generated, Spirit-empowered, and Spirit-protected life as God's own children and heirs [Titus 3:7]. This is the NEW BIRTH [John 3:5;1 John 2:29;3:9;4:7;5:1]...renewing of the Holy Ghost [Romans 8:2] who is the agent of the "working of regeneration."


Damiano

[Apotheoun]

Damiano

You have to stop arguing with yourself about these things.

God grant you many joyful years.

[Damiano]

*["Look at all the things that you say [b]YOU[/b] must do in order to be saved. Funny, and you accuse Catholics of teaching a form of salvation by human effort and choice."]

***The Scriptures are my SOLE authority...an authority that you (i.e.,Orthodoxy) and Romanism don't accept as sufficient for your salvation. The consequence of your disbelief in the Word of God is that you know not God nor believe Him whom He has sent. You and your Catholic brothers are not unlike the fake disciples that followed Christ and only followed Him because of the miracles He performed...and asked Him "...What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent'" [John 6:28-29].

The ONLY work a Christian has to perform and is accepted by God is specified in [John 6:28-29;1 John 3:23]---"This is the WORK of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent!" I have believed on Jesus Christ as my Saviour. He told me in His Word that if I REPENTED of my sins [Acts 3:19, 20] and believed on Him for salvation He would raise me from the dead. He told me that He was "...the RESURRECTION and the LIFE: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die..." [John 11:25-26]. Jesus WILL raise me from the DEAD!!!...for I believe what he says he will do...and He proved it by rising from the DEAD...because He did He will shout my name and raise me like He raised Lazarus.

Jesus Christ did ALL the WORK of salvation when He laid down His life for believers on Calvary's cross and rose from the grave for their justification [Romans 10:9-10]. There is NOTHING a dead sinner can do to inherit heaven...for salvation is TOTALLY by the GRACE of God. If man could save himself by his own efforts there would be no reason for our Lord to die the horrible death that He suffered. But by dying on the cross He paid the ransom for us who trust His COMPLETED sacrifice for us ONCE FOR ALL: "Nor yet that He should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now ONCE in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND TIME without sin unto salvation" [Hebrews 9:25-28]. My Saviour needs to die no more on any Romish or Orthodox altar...for He cried: "It is FINISHED!!!" [John 19:30]. The Christ of the Catholic and Orthodox Church is NOT the Christ of the Bible...your Christ cannot save anyone and is a counterfeit christ...impotent and still hanging on the cross. The Christ of the Bible is a RISEN Christ...who no longer hangs on a cross with a broken body---for He has ascended into the heavens and is ALIVE for ever more.

Damiano