This Man Is A Hero.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='notardillacid' timestamp='1289688985' post='2186959']
So don't fly.
[/quote]

Edited November 17, 2010 by USAirwaysIHS

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1289704671' post='2187041']
There's little anyone can do to keep people safe from a nearly non-existent threat, a threat less likely than you slipping and falling in your bathtub and dying.
[/quote]

So, on a side note, how are those discounted mail-order ink cartridges from Yemen working on your printer?
[/sarcasm]

Edited November 17, 2010 by Norseman82

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1290035826' post='2187709']
So, on a side note, how are those discounted mail-order ink cartridges from Yemen working on your printer?
[/quote]

Another "safety is more important than basic human dignity" person. All right. High five.

Yes, and how are those torpedo boats in the Tonkin Gulf doing? And the "Iranians" saying "You will explode" over the radio? And how are those Spanish, blowing up battleships in Havana harbor? And how are the Iraqis, throwing babies onto floors from their incubators in Kuwait City in 1991? How is that Lusitania, "not carrying munitions?" And the underwear bomber, who was let onto the plane at the behest of a suit-wearing man, despite the fact that he was stopped by security? They're all non-existent or contrived threats. And if the "toner bombs" did exist, they'd probably be welcomed by those who stand to gain from a scare. Usually, potentially real threats are unhindered, like they are every year, when the GAO does these tests: [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/08/AR2009070803777.html"]http://www.washingto...9070803777.html[/url]

There are far easier, more unstoppable ways to kill thousands of people than with an airplane. The few extant and competent terrorists are aware of that fact.

But the spectre of "toner bombs" makes a scary election-time threat. You have to shake the boogeyman when it's time to vote.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 17, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290036649' post='2187712']
Another "safety is more important than basic human dignity" person. All right. High five.
[/quote]

Is not life itself a basic human dignity?

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290036649' post='2187712']
Another "safety is more important than basic human dignity" person. All right. High five.

Yes, and how are those torpedo boats in the Tonkin Gulf doing? And the "Iranians" saying "You will explode" over the radio? And how are those Spanish, blowing up boats in Havana harbor? And how are the Iraqis, throwing babies onto floors from their incubators in Kuwait City in 1991? How is that Lusitania, "not carrying munitions?" And the underwear bomber, who was let onto the plane at the behest of a suit-wearing man, despite the fact that he was stopped by security? They're all non-existent or contrived threats. And if they were extant, they'd be welcomed, or unhindered. Like they are every year, when the GAO does these tests: [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/08/AR2009070803777.html"]http://www.washingto...9070803777.html[/url]

There are far easier, more unstoppable ways to kill thousands of people than with an airplane. The few extant terrorists know that fact.

But the "printer cartridge bombs" makes a scary election-time threat. You have to shake the boogeyman when it's time to vote.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


So are you denying the existence of the printer cartridge bombs?

The whole point I'm trying to make is not to minimize the existence of terrorist danger, which by your remark of "nearly non-existant threat" you certainly seem to be doing (if you are not, you need to choose your words more carefully).

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1290037476' post='2187713']
Is not life itself a basic human dignity?[/quote]

Yes it is. A basic human dignity that cannot be protected by violating it.



[quote]So are you denying the existence of the printer cartridge bombs?[/quote]

Why would I do that? No one in the State stands to profit by lying about such things, just as they haven't thousands of times in the past century alone. And there haven't been any firefighters who start wildfires in order to appear as though they are heroes for responding first. And scientists don't stand to gain in position and prestige if people believe their global warming ideas, and they wouldn't agree amongst themselves to lie in order to propagate those ideas. I just seem to have read about several such cases in the few past years, but down the memory hole for me! I am not at all skeptical of what politicians tell me. No, I believe in anything I'm told to be afraid of.

[quote]The whole point I'm trying to make is not to minimize the existence of terrorist danger, which by your remark of "nearly non-existant threat" you certainly seem to be doing (if you are not, you need to choose your words more carefully).
[/quote]

How many people died in armed robberies in the past, say, 60 years? How many people died because of airline bombs in that same time span? The threat is [i]obscenely overblown.[/i] The common and everyday is ignored, while the exciting and unusual is gobbled up. Kind of like how every priest is a pedophile, according to the feverish, ignorant masses. The ignorance in this case is merely about "terrorism." You don't [i]deny[/i] that there are pedophile priests, do you? Then you can't possibly be against [i]any [/i]means of screening potential priests, such as conducting sting operations with real children among seminarians. It's for our safety, you know. Nothing is more important.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 18, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290038526' post='2187718']
Yes it is. A basic human dignity that cannot be protected by violating it.






Why would I do that? No one in the State stands to profit by lying about such things, just as they haven't thousands of times in the past century alone. And there haven't been any firefighters who start wildfires in order to appear as though they are heroes for responding first. And scientists don't stand to gain in position and prestige if people believe their global warming ideas, and they wouldn't lie to propagate those ideas. I just seem to have read about several such cases in the few past years, but down the memory hole for me! I am not at all skeptical of what politicians tell me. No, I believe in anything I'm told to be afraid of.



How many people died in armed robberies in the past, say, 60 years? How many people died because of airline bombs in that same time span? The threat is [i]obscenely overblown.[/i] The common and everyday is ignored, while the exciting and unusual is gobbled up. Kind of like how every priest is a pedophile, according to the feverish, ignorant masses. The ignorance in this case is merely about "terrorism." You don't [i]deny[/i] that there are pedophile priests, do you?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

Stern,

If you want to argue that there are better ways of fighting the threat, I have no problem with that. But please don't start making assertions that the threat is nonexistant or "obscenely overblown" or try to bring up pedophile priests or blame it all on a "state plot"; that just simply insults our intelligence and only damages your credibility when you may actually make a valid point.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1290039513' post='2187720']
Stern,

If you want to argue that there are better ways of fighting the threat, I have no problem with that. But please don't start making assertions that the threat is nonexistant or "obscenely overblown" or try to bring up pedophile priests or blame it all on a "state plot"; that just simply insults our intelligence and only damages your credibility when you may actually make a valid point.
[/quote]

Clearly. Because people in power seldom come up with scare tactics to bolster their positions. 1984 was purely fiction, not based on human nature. War isn't the health of the State. In fact, whoever said that was a conspiracy theorist idiot. No politician would do anything to foster the institution of war. It damages my credibility to make any assertions to the contrary.

Hermann Goering never said, "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on
a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people
don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the
country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country." [url="http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Hermann.Goering.Quote.65D2"]Quote[/url]

And if he did, he was wrong, and obviously a conspiracy theorist with no understanding of human nature. He damaged his credibility by saying something like that.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 18, 2010 by Sternhauser

[havok579257]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290038526' post='2187718']
Yes it is. A basic human dignity that cannot be protected by violating it.





Why would I do that? No one in the State stands to profit by lying about such things, just as they haven't thousands of times in the past century alone. And there haven't been any firefighters who start wildfires in order to appear as though they are heroes for responding first. And scientists don't stand to gain in position and prestige if people believe their global warming ideas, and they wouldn't agree amongst themselves to lie in order to propagate those ideas. I just seem to have read about several such cases in the few past years, but down the memory hole for me! I am not at all skeptical of what politicians tell me. No, I believe in anything I'm told to be afraid of.



How many people died in armed robberies in the past, say, 60 years? How many people died because of airline bombs in that same time span? The threat is [i]obscenely overblown.[/i] The common and everyday is ignored, while the exciting and unusual is gobbled up. Kind of like how every priest is a pedophile, according to the feverish, ignorant masses. The ignorance in this case is merely about "terrorism." You don't [i]deny[/i] that there are pedophile priests, do you? Then you can't possibly be against [i]any [/i]means of screening potential priests, such as conducting sting operations with real children among seminarians. It's for our safety, you know. Nothing is more important.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


and this is why no one takes you seriously. even when you have a valid point about the tsa you go off the deep end with conspiracy theories. your like the people who claim that a handful of people rule the wolrd. that a handful of people made up the bible to control the masses. that aliens are running the government and so on.

dude, your train of thought has really gone off the deep end. your coming off very illogical and i don't think you even realize it.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290039694' post='2187721']
Clearly. Because people in power seldom come up with scare tactics to bolster their positions. 1984 was purely fiction, not based on human nature. War isn't the health of the State. In fact, whoever said that was a conspiracy theorist idiot. No politician would do anything to foster the institution of war. It damages my credibility to make any assertions to the contrary.

Hermann Goering never said, "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on
a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people
don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the
country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country." [url="http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Hermann.Goering.Quote.65D2"]Quote[/url]

And if he did, he was wrong, and obviously a conspiracy theorist with no understanding of human nature. He damaged his credibility by saying something like that.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

huh?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1290042013' post='2187725']
and this is why no one takes you seriously. even when you have a valid point about the tsa you go off the deep end with conspiracy theories. your like the people who claim that a handful of people rule the wolrd. that a handful of people made up the bible to control the masses. that aliens are running the government and so on.[/quote]

Would that aliens did run the government. The fact is, power corrupts. Some people deny that fact. The powers that be haven't got a master plan. They're far too disorganized and self-seeking for that. Evil masterminds aren't sitting around a big table plotting the fate of the world. Evil is far too banal for that. They do commit tremendous evils, but it's often for the [i]best[/i] of intentions. Like torture. I mean, what if there's a ticking time bomb? "We" [i]have [/i]to torture the suspect. The end justifies the means, for them. They're just a reflection of the society at large, with a lot more power, and thus they are a lot more corrupt and capable of causing grave evils over a wide swath. As Ron Paul says, there's nothing big and mysterious about a "conspiracy." Conspiracy can be two people talking about robbing a convenience store.

Let me give you an example of the kind of meetings that [i]do [/i]happen. Madeline Albright asked if it would be possible to have a U-2 shot down over Iraq as a justification for invading that land. That's the kind of people who are enacting Statepolicy, including the implementation of the TSA itself, and of its procedures. Not wise solons. Just schmucks with a lot of power and a moral compass that is messed up beyond recognition. One of the generals present at that meeting, Hugh Shelton, having at least a modicum of moral sense, was a bit torqued about Albright's suggestion, going as far as to suggest that she should pilot the U-2 to be shot down. Unfortunately, he seemed to be more concerned about the potential death of his pilot, rather than the atrocity of creating an incident as a pretext to invade and slaughter Iraqis. Havok? That's a conspiracy, in case you didn't recognize it. I also suggest you look up Operation Northwoods and Operation Gladio. Real CIA plans to stage hijackings and terrorist attacks as a pretext to invade Cuba, and to stage false-flag terror events on innocents in order to instill hatred for communists groups to be framed for them, respectively. Gladio was carried out. Innocents were killed, particularly in Italy. Always for the best of intentions, Havok. Remember that. A supposed or truly good end justifies any means, to the morally bankrupt. I'm not surprised that these pornoscanners are being put into play, in a society that doesn't even recognize that any and all torture (including the torture method of waterboarding) is gravely and atrociously evil. That's fine. They'll get the opportunity to enjoy some even more wonderful things for themselves, down the road, courtesy of the State.

[quote]dude, your train of thought has really gone off the deep end. your coming off very illogical and i don't think you even realize it.
[/quote]

My train of thought is very much on track. Not to compare myself to them, especially in holiness, but to use a comparison, the Jews thought the apostles were drunk, despite the fact that they were speaking truths. So you calling me "illogical" and suggesting I'm insane doesn't really bother me. You aren't able to understand a lot about the way the world works, and that's fine. So you might as well keep casting aspersions upon me. Or better yet, ignore me. Clearly, I'm insane. Why would you listen to an insane person?

~Sternhauser

Edited November 18, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1290044020' post='2187732']
huh?
[/quote]

Yeah.

~Sternhauser

[ardillacid]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1290042013' post='2187725']
and this is why no one takes you seriously. even when you have a valid point about the tsa you go off the deep end with conspiracy theories. your like the people who claim that a handful of people rule the wolrd. that a handful of people made up the bible to control the masses. that aliens are running the government and so on.

dude, your train of thought has really gone off the deep end. your coming off very illogical and i don't think you even realize it.
[/quote]
Concurrence. Even Dairygirl's posts are easier to read and comprehend the logic behind them

[Sternhauser]

"It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said." -Mark Twain, in [url="http://warprayer.org/"][i]The War Prayer. [/i][/url]

~Sternhauser

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1290045832' post='2187738']
Would that aliens did run the government. The fact is, power corrupts. Some people deny that fact. The powers that be haven't got a master plan. They're far too disorganized and self-seeking for that. Evil masterminds aren't sitting around a big table plotting the fate of the world. Evil is far too banal for that. They do commit tremendous evils, but it's often for the [i]best[/i] of intentions. Like torture. I mean, what if there's a ticking time bomb? "We" [i]have [/i]to torture the suspect. The end justifies the means, for them. They're just a reflection of the society at large, with a lot more power, and thus they are a lot more corrupt and capable of causing grave evils over a wide swath. As Ron Paul says, there's nothing big and mysterious about a "conspiracy." Conspiracy can be two people talking about robbing a convenience store.

Let me give you an example of the kind of meetings that [i]do [/i]happen. Madeline Albright asked if it would be possible to have a U-2 shot down over Iraq as a justification for invading that land. That's the kind of people who are enacting Statepolicy, including the implementation of the TSA itself, and of its procedures. Not wise solons. Just schmucks with a lot of power and a moral compass that is messed up beyond recognition. One of the generals present at that meeting, Hugh Shelton, having at least a modicum of moral sense, was a bit torqued about Albright's suggestion, going as far as to suggest that she should pilot the U-2 to be shot down. Unfortunately, he seemed to be more concerned about the potential death of his pilot, rather than the atrocity of creating an incident as a pretext to invade and slaughter Iraqis. Havok? That's a conspiracy, in case you didn't recognize it. I also suggest you look up Operation Northwoods and Operation Gladio. Real CIA plans to stage hijackings and terrorist attacks as a pretext to invade Cuba, and to stage false-flag terror events on innocents in order to instill hatred for communists groups to be framed for them, respectively. Gladio was carried out. Innocents were killed, particularly in Italy. Always for the best of intentions, Havok. Remember that. A supposed or truly good end justifies any means, to the morally bankrupt. I'm not surprised that these pornoscanners are being put into play, in a society that doesn't even recognize that any and all torture (including the torture method of waterboarding) is gravely and atrociously evil. That's fine. They'll get the opportunity to enjoy some even more wonderful things for themselves, down the road, courtesy of the State.



My train of thought is very much on track. Not to compare myself to them, especially in holiness, but to use a comparison, the Jews thought the apostles were drunk, despite the fact that they were speaking truths. So you calling me "illogical" and suggesting I'm insane doesn't really bother me. You aren't able to understand a lot about the way the world works, and that's fine. So you might as well keep casting aspersions upon me. Or better yet, ignore me. Clearly, I'm insane. Why would you listen to an insane person?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
I never know if I should believe your specific examples, but you are spot on with your assessment of human nature and how politics and governments work: almost ALWAYS someone claims they had the best of intentions as they set out for some despiciable action.

[MIKolbe]

[img]http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n129/corsetti3/cavityimage001-183.jpg[/img]

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