Did Jesus Die For Our Sins?

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1290026512' post='2187677']
Yes, I'm sure some would walk away anyway, but it's one thing to allow them to walk away after clarifying, and another to have them walk away with a faulty understanding when there was clearly the opportunity to clarify before then if He'd meant it to be not literal.
[/quote]


I think Jesus knew that by saying something then that eventually people in the future would have a greater understanding of what he meant. His mission wasnt to convert a bunch of people to Jesus Believers then. He had a few apostles who would spread this later on. And it would grow and grow throughout the centuries. Not only as a religion, but people would grow stonger in Faith based on what they have learned from all the believers throughout the centuries. All the theologians and christian writers have passed these ideas down to people in the future. And now we can grow into a greater understanding and relationship with Jesus because of that. But it all traces back to Jesus. Its just taking mankind a long time to grow.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1290032153' post='2187698']
Bump. By the power invested in the priest the bread and wine is consecrated. Through our [b]faith[/b] we unite in communion with Christ. If someone does not have faith will the Eucharist still be valid, if so in what way? What will it do for the blind sinner? Does anyone know the Church' view?
[/quote]

A priest does not have any more power than anyone else. We are all parts of the body of Christ [1Corinthians 12:27]. Why? because the holy spirit has instilled certain gifts within us. And we can not be a complete body without each other. And these "Powers" so you call them...are not of us...but of the holy spirit working through us. So Jesus doesnt just operate within a priest. He operates within all of us.

This "Power" of transubstantiation is not scriptural.

Edited November 17, 2010 by infinitelord1

[Socrates]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1289954623' post='2187493']
Is it possible to speak metaphorically and literally at the same time? If so then please give me an example.[/quote]
No. Jesus Christ was speaking literally.
Why would He willingly lose so many followers over a misunderstood metaphor?

Christ didn't say His flesh was [b]like[/b] real food, and His blood [b]like[/b] real drink; He said, "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed."

[quote]I think he clarified in John 6:63.[/quote]
Spirit does [b]not[/b] equal metaphor. Jesus Christ is truly present Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Most Holy Eucharist, and His flesh provides us with real spiritual nourishment, but that does not deny the Real Presence.

[quote]How do we know Paul wasnt speaking metaphorically?
[/quote]
There's nothing there to indicate such. He said those who receive unworthily, "eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord." That implies the body of the the Lord is really present, whether they discern it or not, not just that they don't follow the symbolism.

Reyb denies that there ever was a real historical Jesus, and claims the Gospels themselves are nothing but metaphor, if you want to go down that route,

I'll stick with the teachings of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, which have always taught the truth of the real presence.

Do you really think you know better than the successors of the Apostles what Jesus meant?

Here's some quotes from the early Church Fathers concerning the Eucharist:
[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9002frs.asp"]The Eucharist is No Mere Symbol[/url]

[Socrates]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1290032153' post='2187698']
Bump. By the power invested in the priest the bread and wine is consecrated. Through our [b]faith[/b] we unite in communion with Christ. If someone does not have faith will the Eucharist still be valid, if so in what way?
[/quote]
Whether or not the recipient believes or has Faith has no effect whatsoever on the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

He who receives without Faith may eat and drink judgment on himself, but it is the unbelieving communicant who is effected, not Christ.

Christ is not only present if we believe in Him. Then Christ's presence becomes purely subjective.

[Socrates]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1290036468' post='2187711']
A priest does not have any more power than anyone else. We are all parts of the body of Christ [1Corinthians 12:27]. Why? because the holy spirit has instilled certain gifts within us. And we can not be a complete body without each other. And these "Powers" so you call them...are not of us...but of the holy spirit working through us. So Jesus doesnt just operate within a priest. He operates within all of us.

This "Power" of transubstantiation is not scriptural.
[/quote]
Your assertions are not Scriptural.

And Corinthians does nothing to justify your position. The feet do not have the same powers as the head, yet both are part of the body. Not all members of the mystical body of Christ have the gifts of the ordained priesthood.

Seems you've gone protestant. At least be honest and change your "religion" in your profile from "Catholic."