Vocation And Finances

[HopefulBride]

Hi Phatmassers,

I have a question (especially for those discerning religious life and trying to get assistance in paying off the debt) Do you have any feelings of guilt about it? I am working on a campaign with the help of the [url="http://labouresociety.org/"]Laboure Society[/url]. However, I am starting to feel completely guilty about "having people pay my debt" I realize it takes a great amount of humility and trust in the Lord to do this, something that I believe the Lord is gracing me with day and day. But it breaks my heart to have to think about the situation I might be putting friends and family in by asking for their help. I am working on other things as well (making scarves for sale, rosaries and I am currently planning a dinner)

I think it might be because someone basically wanted me to justify why I haven't made more significant progress in terms of paying off my loans but the question did get me to think about other's perception about me and my student debt. It is not like I have not been doing everthing I can but I also can't ignore my obligations.

I guess I just want to know if any of you discerners are struggling with debt and trying to eliminate them as I am. Any of you had people question your motives for entering as well as your requeests for assistance?

[Lilllabettt]

I have mixed feelings about it.

On the one hand, I sometimes experience a moment of annoyance when I hear about people getting these huge debt loads taken care of. When I discerned that I had a vocation, I dropped out of school to avoid racking up more debt. And then I got a job and worked 60+ hr weeks to pay off the debt I had. I felt like I made all these sacrifices in order to do this thing that I really wanted and really made me happy.

And girls who entered after me; they'd owe tens of thousands of dollars and it would be like *snap* its taken care of. Especially after I ended up leaving and had no college degree to support me, and had to struggle to go back to school as an old fogey ... it made me feel mad and I asked myself: "How is that fair?"

I realized, though, that these girls are, besides being normal human beings with consciences, wanting to be religious and probably have even more scrupulous than the average person. In getting other people to pay off their debt, will probably experience guilt, or humiliation, or pressure to persevere. Knowing that they will go through that, they still go for what may be the only realistic option of them pursuing religious life. I realized that in many ways, I got off easy. I took the "easy" path. Especially with those programs where you are really putting yourself out there - like the Labour Society - it really does take a lot of courage, so much I'm not sure I could do it myself.

I think if you offer your guilt/anxiety/embarassment to the Lord, that will be a powerful sacrifice.

[CatherineM]

I think it may be in the long run a bit like giving a teenager a car or making them work to buy their own car. You get some kids who will appreciate the car more if they work for it, but you also will get the kid who will very much value the gift. You will also get the kid who wraps a new gift car around a tree.

[TeresaBenedicta]

This is such a difficult situation.

I, too, struggle with feelings of guilt at times. I have a fair amount of student debt, but I'm not sure how much of it I could have avoided. I went to a Catholic school, which is expensive. But I am certain that I was meant to go there-- it played a very formative role in discovering my vocation. And when I began to think that I might possibly be called to religious life (but I wasn't certain), I figured out a way to graduate a year early (without having to pay for extra summer classes). But it wasn't until I was a semester away from graduation that I [i]knew[/i] I was called.

And now I'm working full time, living at home, putting almost all of my paycheck toward my student loans.

Anyways, I remember a few months ago, expressing my uneasiness with this sort of fund raising with a friend, I was shocked when he quickly rebuked me. ”TeresaBenedicta, a religious, as a bride of Christ, owns nothing of herself, everything she has is her Beloved’s, right?” “Well, yes,” I responded. ”Then you should know that if anything is given to you, it is a gift not to you, but to your future Spouse. Will you deny others the opportunity to give generously to Christ?”

That left me speechless. And I soon realized that, more important than any potential debt relief I might receive, this whole process was going to teach me a great lesson in humility. A much needed one. And one that I am still struggling to learn.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1288484298' post='2183755']
This is such a difficult situation.

I, too, struggle with feelings of guilt at times. I have a fair amount of student debt, but I'm not sure how much of it I could have avoided.

[/quote]

TB,

I too think about whether I could have avoided my debt but I was two years out of college with a mortgage when I started to discern. Sometimes I wish that the Lord would have called me before college but I doubt that I would have persevered or would have been ready to really answer the call. My experiences (in life and in college) have shaped me and my faith and has prepared me for whatever God might be calling me to.

Now I'm doing all I can (sticking to a budget, getting rid of my car) to put as much as I can toward my student loans. I can only trust in the Lord's plan at this time.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1288540099' post='2183815']
TB,

I too think about whether I could have avoided my debt but I was two years out of college with a mortgage when I started to discern. Sometimes I wish that the Lord would have called me before college but I doubt that I would have persevered or would have been ready to really answer the call. My experiences (in life and in college) have shaped me and my faith and has prepared me for whatever God might be calling me to.

Now I'm doing all I can (sticking to a budget, getting rid of my car) to put as much as I can toward my student loans. [b] I can only trust in the Lord's plan at this time.[/b]
[/quote]

When I was close to graduation, trying to figure out what I was going to do, knowing that I had been accepted but unable to enter... I had a hard time accepting that "now" wasn't the time. I wanted so badly just to enter that I could hardly be consoled with the thought of anything else. I remember our chaplain saying to me at one point that thought that the Lord had plans with me prior to entering. Normally, from anyone else, I'd have thought he was just trying to console me for the disappointment of not being able to enter right away. But my chaplain... well, in many ways, he's been very prophetic in my life.

I've been working full-time at parish now for almost three months now and have seen and experienced and learned so much that I am completely convinced that God is pleased to have me where I am right now. And that [i]is[/i] a consolation to me. Even though I long so much to enter [i]now[/i], I desire even more to do God's will, right here, right now.

Still, also part of God's will for me right now, is to work as hard as possible to pay off my loans. That includes fund raising. Working. And most of all praying. Asking for the graces I need to enter as soon as possible (sometimes God only deigns to give certain graces when we ask for them persistently), and always ending my prayer with the words Jesus prayed to his Father, "Nevertheless not my will but Yours be done."

I don't know. You know, by this time in my life, I kind of throw up my hands and say, "Okay God!" Even when I correctly discern his will, I can never manage to figure exactly how he plans on executing it in my life.

[i]But, pleeeeease, God? Please can I enter soon?[/i]

[ksterling]

Since most communities have age limits, women who are discerning may be forced to apply before debts are totally repaid even if they would otherwise prefer to take care of these debts by themselves. I was lucky, I had a scholarship that helped with college and, in the 6 years since I graduated, I have been able to pay off all debts. If I still had debts, I think I would want to pay them off myself without relying on anyone else but if someone has a lot of debt, it may look hopeless. In that case, I think it's wonderful that there are some resources available to help. I don't think anyone should feel guilty asking for help - it's not like you plan on using the money for a trip to Vegas.

It's an important lesson anyone discerning should consider when applying to college. Tuition and fees where I went to college are over $50,000. If you're considering religious life, maybe you should choose a less expensive college. (I wasn't even a practicing Catholic when I started college so this wasn't an issue.) I If the damage is already done, I would recommend using every penny you don't need for essentials to pay off debt - no vacations, live at home, take public transportation - whatever it takes. If you can honestly say you've done all this, there is no shame in getting that last little bit of help

[stlmom]

I'd like to give a quick response from the perspective of a donor to such causes. I donate to the Mater Ecclesiae Fund because it pledges to cover the educational debt of the discerner during formation--i.e., you do not enter free of debt, but the Fund's coverage allows you to enter a community without worry about your loans. If you leave religious life before taking final vows, you assume the balance of your debts once out of the community. If you persevere to final vows, the Fund continues to make payments on your debt until you have spent at least 5 years in final vows, at which time the Fund will pay off your debt completely. I find that to be very fair to all parties. However, I understand that the religious community must also agree to these conditions, and apparently that isn't always the case.
I am happy to be a donor--for many reasons, not the least of which is the tax deduction . So don't be embarrassed or feel guilty about anything.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='stlmom' timestamp='1288648518' post='2184056']
I'd like to give a quick response from the perspective of a donor to such causes. I donate to the Mater Ecclesiae Fund because it pledges to cover the educational debt of the discerner during formation--i.e., you do not enter free of debt, but the Fund's coverage allows you to enter a community without worry about your loans. If you leave religious life before taking final vows, you assume the balance of your debts once out of the community. If you persevere to final vows, the Fund continues to make payments on your debt until you have spent at least 5 years in final vows, at which time the Fund will pay off your debt completely. I find that to be very fair to all parties. However, I understand that the religious community must also agree to these conditions, and apparently that isn't always the case.
I am happy to be a donor--for many reasons, not the least of which is the tax deduction . So don't be embarrassed or feel guilty about anything.
[/quote]


Thanks so much for sharing your perspective, that helps a lot; I always wish I understood what the donors think of such situations.

Pax!!

[TeresaBenedicta]

I was thinking about this more today...

I think if I had a smaller, more manageable amount, I probably would not try to fund raise it off, unless I were somehow inhibited from getting a full-time job or felt specifically that God was asking me to seek financial assistance. For example, if I had $8,000 of student loans, I'd be able to pay that off on my own in about four and a half months.

Having a larger amount makes it more difficult because the time range is much larger. Which necessary means that there are more expenses to consider (for example, I have to pay to have my brakes replaced and other such maintenance that might not be necessary with a shorter time period before entering). So, on my own, even putting as much of my paycheck as possible toward student loans... it could take me up to four years before being able to enter. As I'm just at of college, that doesn't quite put me at the nearing the end of the age bracket for entering... but it does make me much older and there are different consequences that arise from that.

As it is, I trust in God's divine providence and I know that He will work all things for good. Whether that means I am assisted by generous benefactors or if I spend the next four years working to pay everything off...

It's definitely a purifying process, though.

But the time of living as one destined for the religious life is not yet the same as living in the religious life and I don't think it's meant to be a prolonged experience for most people. It is a very difficult stage in life. It is very isolating in some ways. And in it's very nature it's simply contradictory... the heart longs to be out of this world, to live and work and pray as a religious... but yet one is stuck in the world, forced to deal with everyday things that come with living in the secular world.

Still. God knows what He is doing when He places His little ones in these sorts of situations. Often times there is a great many lessons to be learned during this period of waiting. Graces that He is giving us that will, eventually, help us to live more fully in the religious life. Sometimes I think of it as a miniature purgatory

[krissylou]

It's not quite the same, but some friends of mine serve as lay missionaries and are responsible for raising their salaries. So supporting them is part of my monthly budget.

In my mind, this is less about THEM than about supporting their ministries. I could donate each month to Catholic Charities and have that money pay the salaries of people who work for Catholic Charities. This is basically the same thing, in my mind, it's just designated more specifically. And St. Paul is very clear that while he was able to arrange his life and ministry so that he could financially support himself, "the worker deserves his pay."

So I could write a check to <local monastery> to generally support them and their life and ministry, or I could write a check to MEFV to enable people to enter the monastery and support their life and ministry that way. It's all the same thing.

[Klaudi87]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1288738967' post='2184303']
I was thinking about this more today...

I think if I had a smaller, more manageable amount, I probably would not try to fund raise it off, unless I were somehow inhibited from getting a full-time job or felt specifically that God was asking me to seek financial assistance. For example, if I had $8,000 of student loans, I'd be able to pay that off on my own in about four and a half months.

Having a larger amount makes it more difficult because the time range is much larger. Which necessary means that there are more expenses to consider (for example, I have to pay to have my brakes replaced and other such maintenance that might not be necessary with a shorter time period before entering). So, on my own, even putting as much of my paycheck as possible toward student loans... it could take me up to four years before being able to enter. As I'm just at of college, that doesn't quite put me at the nearing the end of the age bracket for entering... but it does make me much older and there are different consequences that arise from that.

As it is, I trust in God's divine providence and I know that He will work all things for good. Whether that means I am assisted by generous benefactors or if I spend the next four years working to pay everything off...

It's definitely a purifying process, though.

But the time of living as one destined for the religious life is not yet the same as living in the religious life and I don't think it's meant to be a prolonged experience for most people. It is a very difficult stage in life. It is very isolating in some ways. And in it's very nature it's simply contradictory... the heart longs to be out of this world, to live and work and pray as a religious... but yet one is stuck in the world, forced to deal with everyday things that come with living in the secular world.

Still. God knows what He is doing when He places His little ones in these sorts of situations. Often times there is a great many lessons to be learned during this period of waiting. Graces that He is giving us that will, eventually, help us to live more fully in the religious life. Sometimes I think of it as a miniature purgatory
[/quote]

What can't break ya will only make you stronger! So offer it up as none of the pains in the world can't compare with the smallest suffering in purgatory!

[TeresaBenedicta]

I thought this might be an appropriate place to share this letter from St. Francis de Sales:

"Thy will be done"
To a young woman prevented from becoming a nun
---------------------
Mademoiselle,

You should resign yourself entirely into the hands of the good God, who, when you have done your little duty about this inspiration and design that you have, will be pleased with whatever you do, even if it be much less. In a word, you must have courage to do everything to become a religious, since God gives you such a desire. But if after all your efforts you cannot succeed you could not please our Lord more than by sacrificing to Him your will, and remaining in tranquility, humility, and devotion, entirely conformed and submissive to His divine will and good pleasure. You will recognize this clearly enough when, having done your best, you cannot fulfill your desires.

For our good God sometimes tries our courage and our love, depriving us of the things that seem to us, and which really are, very good for the soul. And if He sees us ardent in their pursuit, and yet humble, tranquil, and resigned to doing without and to the privation of the thing sought, He gives us blessings greater in the privation than in the possession o f the thing desired. For in all things and everywhere, God loves those who with good heart and simplicity, on all occasions and in all events, can say to Him, "Thy will be done"

Your humble servant,
Francis

[LaPetiteSoeur]

So you know how everyone says God makes everything work? Well, He has. Money has come in so I will have zero debt at the end of my university studies. Thank you all so much for your prayers. I continue to pray for all of you!

Dieu vous benisse!