The Word Of God Rerevealed?

[thessalonian]

Ok, I've been thinking about this lately and hope there is a protestant out here who believes in sola scriptura to comment. So here's the deal. Jesus walked the earth and gave many statements that were recorded in scripture. Problem is they were not recorded until long after they were spoken. For instance Jesus told Peter "thou art rock and on this rock I will build my church. I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, ...". Was this the word of God when it was spoken? Well it would seem that way since God (Jesus) was saying it. Yet some 20-30 years later it was written down. So was it rerevealed when Matthew wrote it down or was it carried on by Tradition? If by Tradition then it would seem that for it to get in an infallible bible called sacred scripture it would have to be sacred oral trad

[LouisvilleFan]

I would post this theory [url="http://www.relevantmagazine.com/forum/"]here[/url].

If you want to be taken seriously by other Christians who have theology degrees, the least you could do is spell out "Oral Tradition."

[thessalonian]

This is a message board for crying out loud. Not a theology society. Get your nose out of the clouds.

[thessalonian]

thoughts?

[MichaelFilo]

There aren't many protestants here at any given time. None that debate, alot who read, no doubt.

[Socrates]

Christians just stumbled about cluelessly until the day God dropped the Bible (KJV, leather-bound, gold trim) out of the sky.

Then they had to wait twenty centuries for Shady & co. to come along and interpret it correctly.

[CatherineM]

I can remember word for word everything my father did and said the day he died. The same for my wedding day. I remember everything I did on 9-11. There are times in our life when we know we are witnessing something that we will always remember. Had I been in Palestine, watching and listening to Jesus, I think I would have implanted every memory like it was carved in stone.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1288144292' post='2182869']
Ok, I've been thinking about this lately and hope there is a protestant out here who believes in sola scriptura to comment. So here's the deal. Jesus walked the earth and gave many statements that were recorded in scripture. Problem is they were not recorded until long after they were spoken. For instance Jesus told Peter "thou art rock and on this rock I will build my church. I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, ...". Was this the word of God when it was spoken? Well it would seem that way since God (Jesus) was saying it. Yet some 20-30 years later it was written down. So was it rerevealed when Matthew wrote it down or was it carried on by Tradition? If by Tradition then it would seem that for it to get in an infallible bible called sacred scripture it would have to be sacred oral trad
[/quote]

Protestants believe that the Holy Spirit preserved the Word of God through testimony, oral tradition, and writings until the canon of Scripture was established.

Al Mohler, President of Southern Baptist Theology Seminary, has several relevant posts in the [url="http://www.albertmohler.com/category/topics/church-history/"]Church History[/url] section of his blog and elsewhere. I couldn't find any directly about Oral/Sacred Tradition, though obviously you can find plenty about Sola Scriptura from him and other Evangelical leaders.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1288325673' post='2183389']
Protestants believe that the Holy Spirit preserved the Word of God through testimony, oral tradition, and writings until the canon of Scripture was established.

Al Mohler, President of Southern Baptist Theology Seminary, has several relevant posts in the [url="http://www.albertmohler.com/category/topics/church-history/"]Church History[/url] section of his blog and elsewhere. I couldn't find any directly about Oral/Sacred Tradition, though obviously you can find plenty about Sola Scriptura from him and other Evangelical leaders.
[/quote]

First of all I would consider your post to be a broad brush and I don't think Mr. Mohler is anywhere near the protestant pope, i.e. speaks for all. I don't really think MOST protestants have given a great amount of consideration to those early years before the Bible was written and collected in to what we now call the New Testament. However I find your response interesting as it does seem to indicate that at least by some there would have to be an admission of Sacred Oral Tradition or the Word of God would have to have been corrupted between the time it was revealed (i.e. spoken by Christ and the Apostles) and then put to paper. The real point of revelation is the point at which it is spoken is a great part of my point in this thread. Then there has to be an accounting for the time between the actually happenings and speaking of the WOG and it's being written down. This does not even delve in to the problem of words not being able to completely capture each event in the life of Christ, of which all the books in the world, John tells us could not contain.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1288544019' post='2183826']
First of all I would consider your post to be a broad brush and I don't think Mr. Mohler is anywhere near the protestant pope, i.e. speaks for all. I don't really think MOST protestants have given a great amount of consideration to those early years before the Bible was written and collected in to what we now call the New Testament. However I find your response interesting as it does seem to indicate that at least by some there would have to be an admission of Sacred Oral Tradition or the Word of God would have to have been corrupted between the time it was revealed (i.e. spoken by Christ and the Apostles) and then put to paper. The real point of revelation is the point at which it is spoken is a great part of my point in this thread. Then there has to be an accounting for the time between the actually happenings and speaking of the WOG and it's being written down. This does not even delve in to the problem of words not being able to completely capture each event in the life of Christ, of which all the books in the world, John tells us could not contain.
[/quote]

I'm sure there are several beliefs among Protestants on this topic, but what I said should encapsulate most of them. Who could be considered a "Protestant pope" anyway? Dr. Mohler is widely respected among Evangelicals of all denominations and Southern is one of the Southern Baptist Convention's most important seminaries, so he's about as important a leader as you'll find among our separated brethren. Even if most lay Protestants haven't thought too much about how the Scriptures came to be, Protestant theologians have. Fact is nearly all of the Bible was initially passed down by oral tradition. Before the printing press, nearly everything about civilization passed from one generation to the next by oral tradition. It's not [i]that[/i] far fetched to believe the New Testament Scriptures could be passed down by oral tradition for two or three generations as they were slowly written and compiled, especially under the Holy Spirit's guidance. It seems ridiculous to us because we don't exercise the memory and recollection skills that are needed to preserve oral tradition.

All that said, I've been around phatmass off and on for five years now and I cannot recall one Protestant coming here who could be considered a sound theologian (even by Protestant standards). If you really want to test your arguments, find a forum with reasonable, orthodox Protestants.

[Paddington]

Thessalonian,

Have you read Roman Catholicism edited by John Armstrong or Sola Scriptura edited by Don Kistler? Those are in the ballpark at least.

~Paddington

[Mark of the Cross]

The Bible is not so much the written word of God. like the Eucharist it contains the 'accidents' of a book of texts describing historical spiritual events and messages given to humanity. It's real power comes from intelligent interpretation through the human intellect and soul. This can be obtained by diligent prayer. Pray for wisdom in reading the Bible!

[MichaelFilo]

Most protestants have not thought out the arguments Mohler makes, but most Catholics have not thought out the basis for their beliefs either. We had a protestant preacher come to our campus and he made the same argument Mohler made, but he was from Ohio.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1288676720' post='2184195']


All that said, I've been around phatmass off and on for five years now and I cannot recall one Protestant coming here who could be considered a sound theologian (even by Protestant standards). If you really want to test your arguments, find a forum with reasonable, orthodox Protestants.
[/quote]

I've been kicked off most of them for presenting my arguments, Been at this a while. Done a radio debate with James McCarthy, prominet anti-catholic, and public debate at a university with a prominent pastor. I am well aware of Mr. Mohler and his status and it doesn't surprise me that protestants don't want to debate. When they run in to a Catholic that knwos his faith, apologetics, and the bible, the are made geniuses.

[kafka]

Sacred Tradition is the 'unwritten truths' (Vatican I) of the 'deeds wrought by God in salvation history' (Vatican II, Dei Verbum) e.g. the salvific and transcendent Passion and Death of Jesus on the Cross.

oral tradition is one form of transmitting the deeds wrought by God, it is not literally Sacred Tradition. Oral tradition could also be said to be one expression of Living Tradition.

Sacred Scripture, the words written by the Supreme Author God, proceed from Sacred Tradition which is the Deeds wrought by God in salvation history.

Edited November 5, 2010 by kafka