The Infallible Interpreter Of Scripture?

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1288125679' post='2182746']
And getting no answers. So there really is no debate, is there? There is not one objection to Catholicism that the word of God can't handle. You were hoping for a Protestant that was not familiar with your doctrine so they would be easy prey? Yes, there are many, but neither has God called P's to be an expert on Catholic doctrine. Personally, I get no pleasure in doing this. [i]It's labor[/i], and our flesh would rather be out doing other things. But since I am utterly convinced Catholics are religious--but lost, I must press on. It's called, [i]obedience.[/i]
[/quote]
Somehow I get the strange feeling that although this is the first time I have threaded with 'Shadyrest', that this is not the first time I have posted to your threads...Maybe under another user name?
Firstly it's a debate table about minor points in religion or differences in interpretation. It is not a debate table for the purpose of proving or disproving the credibility of a mainstream religion. That simply cannot be done!!! And anyone who thinks they alone can achieve that is foolish and would be much better concentrating on their own salvation. And what do you hope to achieve?? Do you really think that our faith is so weak that we will be swayed by what someone on an internet forum writes?? There have been many challenges to my faith but internet attacks offer little persuasion. You can pick a sentence in the Bible and argue indefinitely about what it means, so it is a pursuit with no end time if you just want to argue to prove a point or for arguments sake.
Periodically we get people who for some unknown reason think that they alone have all the answers and that millions of others are wrong. While I think you have been here before under other names I don't think that you are all of those people. How are we supposed to know who is correct? Out of all the differences only one could be right or non. Logic dictates that non are right. God will not let many go wrong and be lost while only one survives. My proof to myself is my experiences of the spirit. God lead me to Catholicism! If I'm wrong about that then tough but I will have lost nothing. I certainly would not join with any faith that seems to have a fundamental objective of attacking the faith from which it split. If Protestants can find God in their beliefs then good on them. Many paths one journey... maybe! But you will never succeed in stopping our journey of faith in Catholicism.

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1288123730' post='2182737']
Christs theology clearly states that we should love our neighbour, atheists, Jews, Muslims etc. [b]Make light and the light will overcome the darkness.[/b] Your bitterness toward Catholics and attempts to inflict hurt on us and that is all you are attempting to do, because you cannot possibly hope to achieve anything positive, is[b] making darkness[/b]! What do you really expect from us? Any response will give you what you are aiming at and will not be of any help to you or us. All we can do is pray for you and the many like you who are lost. Your quotes of the Bible are useless without the love of God being the purpose behind them.
[/quote]

I'm sorry to say that your post is completely unbiblical. Sure, I don't mind if I have an atheist (or Catholic!) neighbor living next door, and I don't mind going over for dinner. But that's where the pleasantries stop when it comes to spiritual matters. You categorize my biblical instruction as "bitterness", which is point blank, outrageous. Even though you don't agree with me, you should realize I'm not getting paid for this, but to be a catalyst for you to rethink your religious system, which has so many holes in it that I'm reminded of a moth eaten garment.

I'm not concerned with "results", for Noah was a preacher of righteousness for over 100 years, and [i]no one listened to him[/i]. God did not choose to save anyone else but the people in the ark. Ditto regarding Jeremiah who got fed up with being rejected (Jer 20:7-8). My job is to be remain faithful to His word despite your reaction to it.

Again, the assertion is made that any response I give will not help anyone. Oh really? I thought this was a debate board? Why are you here may I ask? Do you think your responses will help someone? If so, why can't mine? I think it absolutely hysterical that you think I am lost: one who trusts in the shed blood of Christ alone, which is exactly what He broke through the curtain of this world for, and I, like Paul, "desire to know nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified". Unfortunately, it is you who have no idea what it is to be saved since your salvation scheme consists of "Christ plus....something else". For instance, kicking Christ out of the picture, we read in the CCC that the Catholic Church "does not know of [i]any other means other than baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude" [/i](#1257). Are you kidding me? [i]No other means? Nooooo other means? [/i]To think the Holy Spirit had anything to do with putting together that little diddy, is religious madness.

Recalling your admonition that we love even Muslims. Vatican 2 said, [i]"The plan of salvation also includes foremost the Muslims who also acknowledge the Creator". [/i]I suppose you consider that an example of "loving our neighbor". In reality, it is a bucket of garbage and a lie from the pit of hell, which Jesus would want us to "rebuke sharply" according to Titus 1:13.
The loving thing to do is to tell people like you that your church has duped you into believing that Muslims believe in the "same God" as they do (further documentation on request where the last two popes have said just that very thing: Muslims have "the same God as we"). Baloney. The god of the Muslims and Christianity are mutually exclusive it should go without saying. But to co-join Allah and the God of the Bible into one for the sake of luvvvvvvv? Spare me. The Catholic Church ignorantly "pets" the Muslims because they claim a link to Abraham (Nostre Aetate). But who cares! Jesus specifically condemned those who were claiming a linkage to Abraham because they were rejecting [b]Him, and concluded they were of their father the devil (Jn 8:39-44).[/b]
[b]
[/b]
The same error is carried on with the Jews In [i]Ecclesiam Suam[/i], The Roman Church says that Jews adore the same God, [i]"whom we also worship".[/i] Not so! It is a fact that the Jews [b][u]fail[/u][/b][u] [/u]to adore "the same God" as Christians because Jesus said that whoever does not receieve Him, [u]does not receieve the One who sent Him[/u] (Matt 10:40, Luke 9:48, Jn 13:20).[b] [/b]

Your ridiculous last comment that my quotes of the Bible are useless without the love of God behind them, is baseless and unwarranted, because you fail to realize that the very greatest love I could be showing you is to provide the evidence in "reproving, rebuking and exhorting you" according to His instructions--so you wake up out of your religious delusion of a works salvation based on being in subjection to man sitting on a throne in Italy. This is a direct contradiction to Matt 20:25-26.

The apostle Paul spent quite a lot of time [u]disputing[/u]. Read it for yourself and then be ashamed that everything you said above would have to be applied to him also.

Acts 9:22,17:2, 17:6, 17:17, 18:4, 18:19, 19:8-10; 19:26, 20:31,24:25, 28:23

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1288127174' post='2182754']
I think it's [color="#595959"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="4"]worthless[/size][/font][/color] to ignore someone that will not relent until you answer his simple question.

Shady said: "[color="#595959"]No I do not have to believe that those who compiled the Bible were infallible. That's completely nonsensical and unbiblical. "To the Jews were committed the very "oracles of God" (Roms 3:2). But [i]were they infallible? [/i]Not in the least.:[/color]

[color="#595959"]Knight asked: [/color][color="#595959"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="4"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][size="2"]Then you deny that the Bible is the infallible written word of God?[/size][/font] [/size][/font][/color]
[color="#595959"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"] [/font][/color]
[color="#595959"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"] [/font][/color]
[/quote]

BUMP

[dominicansoul]

you know... Saul thought he knew all of God's teachings when he persecuted Christians...he was just as zealous as you are, but in the end, we all know he was simply WRONG...


It took Jesus Himself to come to Saul and say, "Saul, saul, why are you persecuting me?" It took Jesus to knock him down and blind him...that says a lot that the Lord "blinded" him...He had to, because Saul wouldn't allow himself to see the truth through his own strong stubborn jewish beliefs...

I pray that you, too will be blinded to your stubborn beliefs...and may the Good Lord open your eyes with the help of a Minister of the One True Faith...

God bless

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1288126703' post='2182751']...how it is that [i]you [/i] have demonstrated that you have good will, and I don't. I'd love to hear it....
Having made that caveat, we both know you won't be able to write 2 words.
[/quote]

Charity?

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1288127919' post='2182755']
*yawn* more nonsensical fundamentalist rhetoric. Do you get this banal straight stuff from your pastor or James White? Maybe Boettner? There has got to be an issue of his text on Catholicism somewhere in your house. You are getting non-responses because you wont enter into real debate because you know you will lose. Honestly, you are not smart enough to debate anyway based on the stuff you post here and you are quickly wandering into troll territory. Take your inane comment about the Church only formally defining 2% of scripture. You assume that the Church has said nothing about the other 98%. We have heard it all before and it is utterly baseless because you have completely missed the point of ecclesiastical infallibility because you do not understand the nature of the Church or her relationship with the bridegroom, Jesus.

If you want to have a real dialogue on this particular topic, start here by informing yourself.

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/pbcinter.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/...ia/pbcinter.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html"]http://www.vatican.v...-verbum_en.html[/url]

Until you can learn to dialogue on topics you know nothing about, your arguments carry as much weight here as Charles Manson or Jim Jones. Sure, you have yourself convinced we are all going to hell, but we see right through your house of cards.
[/quote]

Still yet another non-response. It's still all yada yada yada. This poster assumes he has the knowledge to dialogue on the topics I've discussed, but doesn't give one sentence to refute anything I've said except to throw a couple of articles at me from EWTN, thinking he has accomplished something. And with all I know about Catholicism, it was ludicrous for you to assume that I think the church has not said anything about the other 98% of the Bible that she has not "officially defined". Of course I know she has! And all of her non-infallible comments on the other 98% are precisely on the same level as Protestant non-infallible comments. They are non-infallible.
The big error though is the idea that God's word needs to be "officially defined". It's already infallible as is, and doesn't need to be be further "infallibly defined" ex-cathedra.

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1288122702' post='2182734']
I'm still trying to understand why a person who simply once in chat showed to sympathize with the SSPX society and who won't take part in the forum anymore (and I would add a member who wrote a lot of beautiful, orthodox and charitable posts) has gained an unyelding Phishy Warning Tag until the end of his life while members like MichaelFilo or Shadyrest are welcomed as Phatmassers or PM newbie.

Ok, if these members can't be banned from Debate Table, I won't take part in it by my own will.
[/quote]

Once again, more dead air. This poster wants me banned from the debate table because.....
[i]I am debating???????[/i]
[i]
[/i]
It's simply so obvious you do not have the ammunition, the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, to arm yourself with (Eph 6:17).

[Guest Shadyrest]

[quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1288120670' post='2182728']
the rest of the paragraph is:
"There remain therefore many things, and of the greatest importance, in the discussion and exposition of which the skill and genius of [color="#FF0000"]Catholic commentators[/color] may and ought to be freely exercised, so that each may contribute his part to the advantage of all, to the continued progress of the sacred doctrine and to the defense and honor of the Church. "

Isn't this what you want? For individuals to be able to interpret for themselves?
[/quote]

I told you before that I'm not diminishing the office of a teacher. I have 10 commentaries of my own!
But how frustrating indeed it is that after I am condemned for submitting a comment from my own commentary, that you think non-infallible [i]Catholic commentators save the day![/i]
[i]
[/i]
[i]
[/i]
[i]Anyway, you're all avoiding my original post. How can you possibly believe, for example, that tradition (which no one can even identify!) must be on the same level as Scripture?![/i]
[i]This is nothing but an excuse to support any and all catholic doctrine and then revert to that old stand-by, "tradition" to justify it anytime they feel like it. It's such an easy escape route. To use the other poster's words, "I can see right through your house of cards". [/i]