havok579257 Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1287968345' post='2182187'] Would you kindly tell me just exactly when it was that the Roman Catholic Church "put together the Bible"? Thank you. [/quote] before your leader martin luther changed words in the bible and took books out of the bible. thats just fact. the catholic bible was in play before martin luther broke off. not to mention you follow a bible that a simple man (martin luther) changed. go check your facts and see from martin luthers own writing, he changed the bible so it reads faith alone since he believed thats what it should read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1287971472' post='2182205'] before your leader martin luther changed words in the bible and took books out of the bible. thats just fact. the catholic bible was in play before martin luther broke off. not to mention you follow a bible that a simple man (martin luther) changed. go check your facts and see from martin luthers own writing, he changed the bible so it reads faith alone since he believed thats what it should read. [/quote] I believe it says something in the Bible about the type of men who add to or take away from the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shadyrest Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287968921' post='2182191'] Non-Catholics make the gospel overly simplistic. One needs a teacher to learn the true message of the Gospel, and that teacher is Mother Church. Oh ps Dairy is not catholic. [/quote] [i]"The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple'" (Ps 19:7)[/i] [i] [/i] [i]"I have more understanding than all my teachers, for thy testimonies are my meditation" (Ps 119:99).[/i] [i] [/i] [i]"Ye need not that any man teach you" (1 Jn 2:27). [/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shadyrest Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1287971472' post='2182205'] before your leader martin luther changed words in the bible and took books out of the bible. thats just fact. the catholic bible was in play before martin luther broke off. not to mention you follow a bible that a simple man (martin luther) changed. go check your facts and see from martin luthers own writing, he changed the bible so it reads faith alone since he believed thats what it should read. [/quote] [font=Georgia,]Apparently, you're not up to date. Mr. Luther didn't "change" anything. He was merely expressing what others had gone on record before him had already done; namely that if we are not justified by the deeds of the law, as Scripture teaches, then what's left? [i]Faith alone. [/i][/font] [font=Georgia,][i] [/i]Pope Benedict XVI stated "[color="#ff0000"]Luther’s expression sola fide is true if faith is not opposed to charity, to love" (Wednesday Audience, Nov. 19, 2008).[/color][/font] [font="Georgia,"][size="4"][size=2]And since not one of Luther's books was opposed to charity, the Pope now agrees that M.L. was not out of order at all. I know this must be a shock to your system, so I advise laying down with a cool washcloth on the forehead, with a little witchhazel dabbed on for good measure. [/size][/size][/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1287973778' post='2182219'] [font=Georgia,]Apparently, you're not up to date. Mr. Luther didn't "change" anything. He was merely expressing what others had gone on record before him had already done; namely that if we are not justified by the deeds of the law, as Scripture teaches, then what's left? [i]Faith alone. [/i][/font] [font=Georgia,][i] [/i]Pope Benedict XVI stated "[color="#ff0000"]Luther’s expression sola fide is true if faith is not opposed to charity, to love" (Wednesday Audience, Nov. 19, 2008).[/color][/font] [font="Georgia,"][size="4"][size=2]And since not one of Luther's books was opposed to charity, the Pope now agrees that M.L. was not out of order at all. I know this must be a shock to your system, so I advise laying down with a cool washcloth on the forehead, with a little witchhazel dabbed on for good measure. [/size][/size][/font] [/quote] the pope does not agree with martin luther but nice try. the pope does not agree you are saved with faith alone. fact is martin luther changed the bible. when he broke off from the catholic church he changed the bible. the bible which is the written word of God. so your saying its ok for a man to change the bible when he thinks its ok. you think God is not infalliable and that the gospel writers were not inspired by the holy spirit and that it is not infallible writing. keep up the unchristian attitude, it looks like your just about to convert the majority of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Mr. Luther removed the same books that the Rabbis removed after the destruction of the Temple. The ones they removed were the ones most used by the Early Church. They were the messianic ones. The ones that the Jewish authorities were most afraid of. As to the Church putting together the Bible, who do you think decided which books to include in the New Testament? Aliens maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shadyrest Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287969345' post='2182193'] I'll let Cath answer the question. But the Church adopted the Canon that Christ and the Apostles (catholics) used. It was not until Martin Luther that books of the bible were ripped out, that he based on a very Anti-Christian Jewish Council. A council convened AFTER our Blessed Lord ascended into heaven, meaning that council had no power what-so-ever. Luther also wanted to remove the book of James. [/quote] Poppycock to the supposition that it wasn't until Luther that the Apocrypha was questioned. Major luminaries that rejected the "A" were Melito of Sardis, Hilary of Poitiers, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanatius, Epiphanius, Gregory of Nanzianzus, Basil the Great, Amphilochius, Rufinus, & Jerome. And just prior to the 16th century, Cardinal Ximenes produced a Bible called a "[i]Biblia Complutensia"[/i] with a preface that the "A" were not canonical, but may be read for edification. It was published with the authority of Pope Leo X, to whom the whole work was dedicated. Even Luther's great opponent, Cardinal Cajetan, in an edition of the Bible which he edited. He expressly called attention to Jerome's separating the canonical books from the non-canonical and agreed with this "split". You see, you've been brought up with only one side of the story and have been terribly deceived. And if you've been wrong all along on this issue, then perhaps you ought to ask yourself if you might be wrong on other things as well. [i]Don't just sit there and listen to what a priest tells you and assume the matter is settled![/i] Edited October 25, 2010 by Shadyrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1287972698' post='2182212'] [i]"The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple'" (Ps 19:7)[/i] [i] [/i] [i]"I have more understanding than all my teachers, for thy testimonies are my meditation" (Ps 119:99).[/i] [i] [/i] [i]"Ye need not that any man teach you" (1 Jn 2:27). [/i] [/quote] [color=#001320][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2]For whereas for the time you ought to be masters, you have need to be taught again what are the first elements of the words of God: and you are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. - Hebrews 5:12[/size][/font][/color] [color=#001320][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#001320][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2]the things which thou hast heard of me by many witnesses, the same commend to faithful men, who shall be fit to teach others also. - 2 Tim 2:2[/size][/font][/color] [color=#001320][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#001320][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2]To be continued.[/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1287970279' post='2182195'] Popery. Awesome word. [/quote] My grandma keeps some in her bathroom. Makes it smell nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1287974882' post='2182226'] Poppycock to the supposition that it wasn't until Luther that the Apocrypha was questioned. Major luminaries that rejected the "A" were Melito of Sardis, Hilary of Poitiers, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanatius, Epiphanius, Gregory of Nanzianzus, Basil the Great, Amphilochius, Rufinus, & Jerome. And just prior to the 16th century, Cardinal Ximenes produced a Bible called a "[i]Biblia Complutensia"[/i] with a preface that the "A" were not canonical, but may be read for edification. It was published with the authority of Pope Leo X, to whom the whole work was dedicated. Even Luther's great opponent, Cardinal Cajetan, in an edition of the Bible which he edited. He expressly called attention to Jerome's separating the canonical books from the non-canonical and agreed with this "split". You see, you've been brought up with only one side of the story and have been terribly deceived. And if you've been wrong all along on this issue, then perhaps you ought to ask yourself if you might be wrong on other things as well. [i]Don't just sit there and listen to what a priest tells you and assume the matter is settled![/i] [/quote] I know Luther was not the first to want to rip books of the Canon of the Apostles out of the BIble the first was the Anti-Christian Jewish Council that has no authority. Luther based his judgement on that council. The King James and other non-catholic bibles do not have certain books because of an anti-Christian non-authoritative council. Edited October 25, 2010 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shadyrest Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1287974136' post='2182221'] the pope does not agree with martin luther but nice try. the pope does not agree you are saved with faith alone. fact is martin luther changed the bible. when he broke off from the catholic church he changed the bible. the bible which is the written word of God. so your saying its ok for a man to change the bible when he thinks its ok. you think God is not infalliable and that the gospel writers were not inspired by the holy spirit and that it is not infallible writing. keep up the unchristian attitude, it looks like your just about to convert the majority of the board. [/quote] Catholic translators [u]before[/u] Luther, had translated the passage in Romans in exactly the same way in 1476 and 1483 in the Nuremberg Bible and the Italian Bibles of Geneva! Second, it is actually you who thinks God is not infallible because instead of simply believing Him when He tells us that "ALL" have sinned in no less than 5 places, you come along and try to convince us that the Holy Spirit [i]really didn't mean "all"....after all.....because Mary was an exception. [/i]Now the rational person will either believe the crystal clear statement from the Text, or we remove our brains and leave them at the Vatican doorstep and make ourselves believe that the Holy Spirit is a linguistic lunkhead who needs the Magisterium to [i]tell us what He really meant to say![/i] Finally, I never said that the Pope agrees with everything Luther wrote, but he [i]did say, much to your dismay I'm sure, [/i] that the man was, quote---[color="#FF0000"]"correct"[/color]---in his translation regarding the phrase "faith alone", a term Catholics may even use now, with his mentioned qualifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shadyrest Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287975906' post='2182231'] I know Luther was not the first to want to rip books of the Canon of the Apostles out of the BIble the first was the Anti-Christian Jewish Council that has no authority. Luther based his judgement on that council. The King James and other non-catholic bibles do not have certain books because of an anti-Christian non-authoritative council. [/quote] You are extremely stubborn and blind. [i]Luther was not the first one to---"rip" books out of the canon! You have no proof for this other than your worthless tradition. I know old habits die hard, but this is ridiculous. [/i]The "A" existed, but the general consensus was that they may be read for edification, [i]but were [b]not [/b]canonical.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) The majority of Church Fathers believed the [font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"]Deuterocanonical Books to belong to the Canon, just as the Apostles had them in their Canon. I and the Catholic Church will go with the Canon of the Apostles and not the Canon of Luther.[/size][/font] [font="arial, sans-serif"] [/font] [font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"]Here's some fun bedtime reading. Enjoy.[/size][/font] [font="arial, sans-serif"] [/font] [font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"]--------[/size][/font] [font="arial, sans-serif"] [/font] [font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"][quote][/size][/font][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.[/size][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows [/size][/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth's declaration of Mary's blessedness above all women follows Uzziah's declaration in Judith 13:18.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Luke 1:52 - Mary's magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]L[/size][/font][/color][/font][font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]uke 2:29 - Simeon's declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Luke 13:29 - the Lord's description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Luke 21:24 - Jesus' usage of "fall by the edge of the sword" follows Sirach 28:18.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke's description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus', Luke's and Paul's usage of "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.[/size][/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color] [color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Acts 1:15 - Luke's reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter's and Paul's statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Rom 1:18-25 - Paul's teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God's existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font] [font="Times"][color="#000000"][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]Rom. 9:21 - usage of the potter and the clay, making two kinds of vessels follows Wisdom 15:7.[/size][/font][/color] [/font] [font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="3"][size=2] [/size][/size][/font] [font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="3"][size=2][url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html"]READ MORE [/url][/size][/size][/font][font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"][i][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] [/font][/i][/size][/font] [font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"][i][font="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]The Protestants attempt to defend their rejection of the deuterocanonicals on the ground that the early Jews rejected them. However, the Jewish councils that rejected them (e.g., School of Javneh (also called "Jamnia" in 90 - 100 A.D.) were the same councils that rejected the entire New Testatment canon. Thus, Protestants who reject the Catholic Bible are following a Jewish council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament.[/size][/font][size="2"][/quote] Source: [/size][url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html"] [/url][size="2"][url="http://www.scripture...uterocanon.html"]http://www.scripture...uterocanon.html[/url][/size] [/i][/size][/font] Edited October 25, 2010 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1287975934' post='2182233'] Finally, I never said that the Pope agrees with everything Luther wrote, but he [i]did say, much to your dismay I'm sure, [/i] that the man was, quote---[color="#FF0000"]"correct"[/color]---in his translation regarding the phrase "faith alone", a term Catholics may even use now, with his mentioned qualifications.[/quote] This is why Luther wanted to rip out James. "18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way? 26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 [quote name='Shadyrest' timestamp='1287972698' post='2182212'] [i]"The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple'" (Ps 19:7)[/i] [i] [/i] [i]"I have more understanding than all my teachers, for thy testimonies are my meditation" (Ps 119:99).[/i] [i] [/i] [i]"Ye need not that any man teach you" (1 Jn 2:27). [/i] [/quote] Indeed, and do you realize that in the former you are quoting a king chosen and anointed specifically by God and a prefigurement of Christ? And in the latter, do you not also read that that passage refers to "those who would deceive you" (1Jn 2: 26). Divert your eyes to the beginning of the chapter and note that these deceivers are those who come "in the last hour". Which sounds suspiciously like this fragmentary, dissenting protestants, and not the original, unified Church. It is the Catholic Church in which we are anointed by Christ, and indeed it is "true" and indeed it teaches us about everything, as the good Scripture says. Remember, the Bible followed the formation of the Church, and every part of it reinforces the body of believers. It is good for wisdom and reproof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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