Stephen Colbert Preaches Redemptive Suffering On The View

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294128389' post='2196478']
There is room for disagreement with the church, and many good catholics would back me up on that. dUSt and his Militant tags dont agree, but afaik non dogmatic matters are often open to a certain amount of interpretation, and other opinions and teachings of certain popes are not held as binding. Case in point, the Capital Punishment thread we had here a while back, where certain pontiffs and teachings had contrary views, but as far as i know you could believe either way and still be considered a catholic.
[/quote]

The first time I posted in this thread with the quote of Colbert's you argued that his "questioning" of the Church did not mean he disagreed with the Church but just asking questions. Now that there's a quote of him saying just that, there's room for disagreement. But the terms "question the Church" and "disagree with the Church" causes confusion of what does he mean by "Church"? It can be a very board word, and he leaves it that way, twice. With no example of where it is ok, or under what terms one can, or even an example he may disagree.

And there's the danger of scandal, publicly stating more than once that one can question and/or disagree with the Church, yet offering no example where it is ok. Such a statement requires a clarification, yet he refused twice to give one.

[Adrestia]

Hello! Comedy Central!

I can't believe that we are discussing a Comedy Central sketch as if it were a factual representation of his beliefs or a real news report.

Some people thought it was funny, some didn't. That should be the end of the conversation.

Lighten up.

[Socrates]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1294096460' post='2196278']
Because that's obviously what would solve the problem.

Putting up false challenges like that are silly and illogical.

Last time I checked both sides conservative/liberal both have their barking dogs (Colbert,O'Reily,Beck) etc that want to call out people and politicians, yet it is the majority of people that vote the idiot senators/representatives in the first place.

Though we can't get ourselves out of the situation, because we are trapped in it anyway.

oh well....
[/quote]
Christ calls us to acts of personal charity towards those in need (like that demonstrated by the saints) - not to political leftism or more government tax-and-spend "solutions" (which have largely proved costly and ineffective).

I can still call out a barking dog if he barks blatant nonsense.

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294098919' post='2196291']
is there any point in voting a Christian politician into government if they wont use the government to help the poor?


It seems the american people are hell bent on making sure that the money they have already given to the government is used for wars rather than being directed back at the problems with america, education, poverty, unemployment, sickness.

i can understand not wanting to give more money to the government, but how about asking that the money you already give is used to save people rather than kill them?
[/quote]
I'm not exactly sure what "Christian politicians" you and Colbert are talking about.
Federal government spending on social programs to "end poverty" has skyrocketed since the 1960s, yet this has done little to eliminate poverty.
And[i] domestic[/i] spending has actually increased more under Bush than under Clinton. And now under Obama we're over 3 trillion in debt.
How much must government spending increase before you consider it "helping the poor"? Throwing ever more tax money at the problem isn't solving it.

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1294100829' post='2196305']
Because he already gives a lot of money, is on the board of Donor's Choose, which he monetarily supports, and uses his fame and position to raise easily hundreds of thousands of dollars if not over a million (I am at work, but I recall a hundred thousand number being one of the lower numbers of the charities helps raise funds for). Pardon the already financially and chronologically generous man for having a house and a good school environment for his kids.
[/quote]
I commend him for his charitable giving, but that's not what he's talking about here.

He's (through his "satire") basically accusing those who disagree with his tax-and-spend leftist politics of "not wanting to help the poor" and of being un-Christian, which is utter self-righteous nonsense.

I know plenty of people who are extremely generous in their personal charitable giving who utterly reject tax-and-spend socialistic politics.

No, Jesus is not a liberal Democrat. (Nor is He a conservative Republican, a socialist, a libertarian, nor an anarchist, for that matter.)

[quote name='tgoldson' timestamp='1294150380' post='2196510']
Hello! Comedy Central!

I can't believe that we are discussing a Comedy Central sketch as if it were a factual representation of his beliefs or a real news report.

Some people thought it was funny, some didn't. That should be the end of the conversation.

Lighten up.
[/quote]
Yes, it's a comedy sketch, but with a rather obvious ham-handed and preachy ideological message.
(And, yes, we're all aware the views Colbert voices in his on-air character are not really his, but a mockery of those he disagrees with politically.)
Only funny if you agree with Colbert's lefty politics.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1294165476' post='2196575']
Yes, it's a comedy sketch, but with a rather obvious ham-handed and preachy ideological message.
(And, yes, we're all aware the views Colbert voices in his on-air character are not really his, but a mockery of those he disagrees with politically.)
Only funny if you agree with Colbert's lefty politics.
[/quote]

I hope we can agree to disagree on that. I found the sketch [i]hilarious[/i], but I do not favor creating (or enlarging) a population that completely depends on government support. As a person that lost her home and most of her belongings during a hurricane, I'm a little soft when it comes to short-term government support during and immediately after a crisis. (I've been called ultra-conservative for supporting the FairTax plan and being pro-life; yet I've been called ultra-liberal for supporting government oversight of some industries. I'm neither left or right, Republican or Democrat. I consider myself relatively conservative, but I can't stand most of the self-proclaimed conservative "leaders" that are on TV.) Colbert's show mocks "righty" politicians and talking heads because the advertisers pay for that. He has already come out and said that he personally does not agree with all the things that his TV show character says or does. IMHO, it's a comedy show. That's it.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294099760' post='2196297']
If I am not mistaken, Americans give more to charity than most other nations, and of those Americans Christians and Conservatives are more likely to donate more than Non-religious and Liberals.

The government should help the poor, but not become their parents. The Private section often does far more to help the poor anyway.
[/quote]

You are not mistaken, but that is not the whole picture, either.

Americans give more...total.

We do [i]not[/i] give more per capita. Nor do we give more of our salaries. In other words, we are not more 'generous' than our first world counterparts, but in actuality relatively stingy.

You have to understand that the US has a GNP that is far and away above any other nation (1/3 of the world's entire GNP is..the US, and the second leading country [Japan] has less than half our GNP). [url=http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/gnp.html](charts)[/url] So, if there is going to be any donating to a cause going on....the Americans typically lead the way. But we are the wealthy people tossing in our excess gold, not the poor widow donating her last mite to the treasury. People from Great Britain are much more generous than Americans, typically.

[Socrates]

[quote name='tgoldson' timestamp='1294168562' post='2196598']
I hope we can agree to disagree on that. I found the sketch [i]hilarious[/i], but I do not favor creating (or enlarging) a population that completely depends on government support. As a person that lost her home and most of her belongings during a hurricane, I'm a little soft when it comes to short-term government support during and immediately after a crisis. (I've been called ultra-conservative for supporting the FairTax plan and being pro-life; yet I've been called ultra-liberal for supporting government oversight of some industries. I'm neither left or right, Republican or Democrat. I consider myself relatively conservative, but I can't stand most of the self-proclaimed conservative "leaders" that are on TV.) Colbert's show mocks "righty" politicians and talking heads because the advertisers pay for that. He has already come out and said that he personally does not agree with all the things that his TV show character says or does. IMHO, it's a comedy show. That's it.
[/quote]
I understand the words of Colbert's "conservative" character to be basically the opposite of what he thinks in real life.

Although the show is comedy, I don't think it's unbiased humor for humor's sake, but contains a rather obvious left-wing ideological message.
In this case, the message is that conservatives don't want to help the poor, and that Christian charity is identical with liberal tax-and-spend government policies. (Colbert's "conservative" character, of course, is "outraged" to learn that "Jesus is a liberal Democrat.")

Politics, aside, I just don't find Colbert that funny. Job Stewart is just as liberal, but from what little I've seen of him is actually funnier and more talented at what he does.
But, oh well, to each his own.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1294189259' post='2196730']
Job Stewart is just as liberal, but from what little I've seen of him is actually funnier and more talented at what he does.
But, oh well, to each his own.
[/quote]


That much we agree on. i like both, but find Jon Stewart to be generally funnier and more relevant.

[Socrates]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1294171667' post='2196616']
You are not mistaken, but that is not the whole picture, either.

Americans give more...total.

We do [i]not[/i] give more per capita. Nor do we give more of our salaries. In other words, we are not more 'generous' than our first world counterparts, but in actuality relatively stingy.

You have to understand that the US has a GNP that is far and away above any other nation (1/3 of the world's entire GNP is..the US, and the second leading country [Japan] has less than half our GNP). [url=http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/gnp.html](charts)[/url] So, if there is going to be any donating to a cause going on....the Americans typically lead the way. But we are the wealthy people tossing in our excess gold, not the poor widow donating her last mite to the treasury. People from Great Britain are much more generous than Americans, typically.
[/quote]
Any stats to back that up?

Just curious . . .

[Mr.Cat]

I'm just shocked knight implied that Non-Catholics may be Christian... Are we really going to have this sort of argument, "[i]who gives the most[/i]"? But really, lets ignore Non-Christians who help the needy, because that's totally Christian of us.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1294189259' post='2196730']I understand the words of Colbert's "conservative" character to be basically the opposite of what he thinks in real life.[/quote]
Really? How did you come to that understanding? I don't see it, but I miss stuff all the time.

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1294189259' post='2196730']Although the show is comedy, I don't think it's unbiased humor for humor's sake, but contains a rather obvious left-wing ideological message.
In this case, the message is that conservatives don't want to help the poor, and that Christian charity is identical with liberal tax-and-spend government policies. (Colbert's "conservative" character, of course, is "outraged" to learn that "Jesus is a liberal Democrat.")[/quote]
I certainly agree with half of this statement - that it is not unbiased humor. I do, however, believe that it is "for humor's sake."

Unlike Colbert, Stewart does promote his own ideas by going on news programs. Stewart's appearance on CNN's Crossfire got the show canceled ([url="http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2005/01/4509.ars"]http://arstechnica.c...005/01/4509.ars[/url] ). Stewart just recently dedicated an entire show to 9/11 responders in order to push passage of their bill. Colbert sticks to ridiculous, over-the-top satire.

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1294189259' post='2196730']Politics, aside, I just don't find Colbert that funny. Job Stewart is just as liberal, but from what little I've seen of him is actually funnier and more talented at what he does.
But, oh well, to each his own.[/quote]
Stewart's humor is far more intellectual. I still find Colbert hilarious - but I liked that movie "[i]Dude, Where's My Car?[/i]" - so what do I know?

[Socrates]

[quote name='tgoldson' timestamp='1294256976' post='2197051']
Really? How did you come to that understanding? I don't see it, but I miss stuff all the time.[/quote]
In real life, Stephen Colbert's a liberal Democrat, but his TV character's a "conservative Republican," whose views (badly, imo) parody right-wing viewpoints.
It seems obvious enough to me that the main point of the show is to mock and ridicule American conservatism (and conversely, indirectly promote liberalism).

[quote]
I certainly agree with half of this statement - that it is not unbiased humor. I do, however, believe that it is "for humor's sake."[/quote]
Basically all political humor (of any stripe) pushes a particular political viewpoint directly or indirectly.

[quote]Unlike Colbert, Stewart does promote his own ideas by going on news programs. Stewart's appearance on CNN's Crossfire got the show canceled ([url="http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2005/01/4509.ars"]http://arstechnica.c...005/01/4509.ars[/url] ). Stewart just recently dedicated an entire show to 9/11 responders in order to push passage of their bill. Colbert sticks to ridiculous, over-the-top satire.


Stewart's humor is far more intellectual. I still find Colbert hilarious - but I liked that movie "[i]Dude, Where's My Car?[/i]" - so what do I know?
[/quote]
I'm not a fan of either one, and haven't seen as much of Stewart - it's just from the few clicks I've seen, he seems funnier.

But it's pointless to argue about what's funny and what isn't, as humor is extremely subjective.

For instance, I think the movie [i]The Big Lebowski[/i] is hilarious, but my wife can't stand it. My dad never got what was so hilarious about the Three Stooges. I didn't find Jim Carrey that funny.

(However, years back, a philosophical friend of mine tried to argue philosophically, using the principles of Aristotle and Aquinas, that[i] Monty Python and the Holy Grail [/i]was not funny, and should not be laughed at - no joke. I was like, I don't care, if it makes me lmao, it's funny!)

[kujo]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1294268672' post='2197185']
In real life, Stephen Colbert's a liberal Democrat, but his TV character's a "conservative Republican," whose views (badly, imo) parody right-wing viewpoints.
It seems obvious enough to me that the main point of the show is to mock and ridicule American conservatism (and conversely, indirectly promote liberalism).
[/quote]

While that was certainly true during the Bush years, he and Stewart have directed more than their fair share of mockery towards the Democrats. In fact, the other night, Stewart had a whole segment on that ludicrous law out in San Fran which banned Happy Meals. An obviously-leftist proposition, the correspondent interviewing a supporter of that law hammered home the hypocrisy and stupidity of the law by proposing that a similar law be passed forcing Netflix to provide the documentary "Super Size Me" to every parent in America. The interviewee was shocked at this and stated that "we don't have the power" to "tell a private business how to operate."

The shows are, admittedly, left-of-center; however, they are not nearly the pinko-democratic love fests that you seem to think they are.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1294289433' post='2197316']

The shows are, admittedly, left-of-center; however, they are not nearly the pinko-democratic love fests that you seem to think they are.
[/quote]

And then the thought is that it's simply T.V.......who cares?

[kujo]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1294290674' post='2197322']
And then the thought is that it's simply T.V.......who cares?


[/quote]

Of course.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1294290932' post='2197323']
Of course.
[/quote]