Red Rose/ White Rose And Discernment- Help!

[Shana]

I met with my spiritual director last evening and and he's asking me to make a novena to St. Therese of Lisieux, to help me know if I'm called to this religious community I'm looking into- meaning if I get a red rose the answer is yes and if I get a white rose no. I've never done anything like this, and worry if this is superstitious or if God wants to speak to me through it seeing as how my spiritual director is suggesting I do this. It worked for him, when he was discerning between diocesan priesthood and religious life someone came up to him out of the blue and gave him a red rose signifying that he was meant to remain in formation to be a diocesan priest. Is it a literal rose that I'd get? What if I don't recieve a rose at all, what does that mean? Would a rose recieved outside the novena time count? He said he'd email me how to do the prayer. I just don't want to be basing a major life decision around something unsound, and I'm pretty unfamiliar with this and don't know if it's something I can trust. And I don't want it not to work because of my lack of faith but on the other hand I wonder if this is testing God by demanding that he respond to me with and answer in a certain way within a specific timeline.

Maybe I should add that this religious community that I feel very drawn toward isn't even established but is emerging/ being seriously discerned. The religious sister that is starting it is solid and I've seen her name come up on the boards on Vocation Station before and things seem to be going in the right direction with open door and encouragement for her after open door and encouragement. She hasn't come out fully publicly yet because she first wants to wait for it to be more official (to recieve the appropriate ecclesiastical approvals). Maybe something like asking for a rose would possibly be appropriate in this situation seeing as how joining a new religious community takes extra faith and assurance because of the inherent difficulties of being part of a brand new community.

Please give me some input here!

[Maggyie]

Don't worry about the roses thing. That does sound a bit silly, making a decision based off what color a flower is. Although of course God could send you a special message in this way if He wanted. The thing is He usually doesn't work that way. But do make the novena, because it is the prayer that will help clarify things for you.

[HopefulBride]

Shana,

I agree with Maggie. Don't worry so much about the color of the Rose and just ask the Lord for guidance. He will provide it.

God Bless,
HB

Edited October 19, 2010 by HopefulBride

[vee]

Its an easy novena just say this prayer for nine days and ask her about your vocation, to let you know Gods will.

[left]O Little Therese of the Child Jesus, please pick for me a rose from the heavenly gardens and send it to me as a message of love.[/left]
[left]O Little Flower of Jesus, ask God today to grant the favors I now place with confidence in your hands .... (Mention specific requests).[/left]
[left]St. Therese, help me to always believe as you did, in God's great love for me, so that I might imitate your "Little Way" each day. Amen.[/left]
[left]
[/left]
Praying to St Therese is not superstition nor is asking her for something, she answers and Im not joking! She sends real roses but also spiritual ones, or sometimes other things you need. Her goal is to make God loved more so if what you are asking for is in line with that expect some kind of answer. She is sneaky and fun though so you never know what you might get with her. Have fun and good luck!!!

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='Shana' timestamp='1287496347' post='2180661']
I met with my spiritual director last evening and and he's asking me to make a novena to St. Therese of Lisieux, to help me know if I'm called to this religious community I'm looking into- meaning if I get a red rose the answer is yes and if I get a white rose no. I've never done anything like this, and worry if this is superstitious or if God wants to speak to me through it seeing as how my spiritual director is suggesting I do this. It worked for him, when he was discerning between diocesan priesthood and religious life someone came up to him out of the blue and gave him a red rose signifying that he was meant to remain in formation to be a diocesan priest. Is it a literal rose that I'd get? What if I don't recieve a rose at all, what does that mean? Would a rose recieved outside the novena time count? He said he'd email me how to do the prayer. I just don't want to be basing a major life decision around something unsound, and I'm pretty unfamiliar with this and don't know if it's something I can trust. And I don't want it not to work because of my lack of faith but on the other hand I wonder if this is testing God by demanding that he respond to me with and answer in a certain way within a specific timeline.

Maybe I should add that this religious community that I feel very drawn toward isn't even established but is emerging/ being seriously discerned. The religious sister that is starting it is solid and I've seen her name come up on the boards on Vocation Station before and things seem to be going in the right direction with open door and encouragement for her after open door and encouragement. She hasn't come out fully publicly yet because she first wants to wait for it to be more official (to recieve the appropriate ecclesiastical approvals). Maybe something like asking for a rose would possibly be appropriate in this situation seeing as how joining a new religious community takes extra faith and assurance because of the inherent difficulties of being part of a brand new community.

Please give me some input here!
[/quote]

I agree with the others, the color thing is a bit hinky. But do do the novena! My parish does the one to the Miraculous Medal, and they really work! Prayer is the answer to all things,and God will [b]never[/b] lead you astray

Dieu vous benisse!

[ksterling]

The novena sounds very nice but the rose thing - not so much. This isn't the 15th century. Frankly, if my SD said that to me I would say I thought it was nutty and ask him to rethink his instruction - not that I can ever imagine my SD doing that. He is a very grounded and smart man - I don't think it would ever occur to him.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1287507617' post='2180722']
Its an easy novena just say this prayer for nine days and ask her about your vocation, to let you know Gods will.

[left]O Little Therese of the Child Jesus, please pick for me a rose from the heavenly gardens and send it to me as a message of love.[/left]
[left]O Little Flower of Jesus, ask God today to grant the favors I now place with confidence in your hands .... (Mention specific requests).[/left]
[left]St. Therese, help me to always believe as you did, in God's great love for me, so that I might imitate your "Little Way" each day. Amen.[/left]
[left]
[/left]
Praying to St Therese is not superstition nor is asking her for something, she answers and Im not joking! She sends real roses but also spiritual ones, or sometimes other things you need. Her goal is to make God loved more so if what you are asking for is in line with that expect some kind of answer. She is sneaky and fun though so you never know what you might get with her. Have fun and good luck!!!
[/quote]
I've actually heard multiple accounts from various people about getting roses! And there is one I've heard about from a friend who has had it happen multiple times! It may sound a little superstitious, but to a lot of the world, prayer at all sounds superstitious...

[MithLuin]

Yeah, before everyone knocks the rose thing....

Do you believe that God answers prayers? That he can give us 'signs' in our lives? [i]Demanding[/i] such a sign is never a good thing, but asking God to reveal his will to you is faithful. And, yes, there are things that are very specific, concrete signs that sometimes play a role in someone's process of discernment.

It plays a part...but it is [i]not[/i] the end all be all of discernment. If God gives you a clear sign, that's great...but you still have to live it out, and continue discerning God's will moving forward.

So, basically, there is no harm in doing a novena to St. Therese, or even asking her to help you see God's will for you.

And who knows? Maybe you'll get a rose. God can use someone to help you see His will more clearly.

[Luigi]

With my luck, I'd get a pink rose - or a carnation!

I know people who consider that they have 'special signs' from God, but I wouldn't trust my whole future life to it - God gave us a free will and the ability to reason for a reason. Pray the novena and accept any sign that comes your way, but keep thinking and eventually make a free-will decision. If God is calling you to a particular vocation, you still have to make a full commitment to it with your free will.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1287550133' post='2180932']
With my luck, I'd get a pink rose - or a carnation!

I know people who consider that they have 'special signs' from God, but I wouldn't trust my whole future life to it - God gave us a free will and the ability to reason for a reason. Pray the novena and accept any sign that comes your way, but keep thinking and eventually make a free-will decision. If God is calling you to a particular vocation, you still have to make a full commitment to it with your free will.
[/quote]
I would and I have. I honestly chose my college based off of M&Ms. Seriously. I had and equal percentage of school paid for by scholarships at either school I wanted to go to. The pros and cons were pretty much equal. My mom told me to pray. I said, "God, I need help, and I'm really dense. Please give me a very obvious sign. I would prefer it written across the sky in clouds...and you can even use abbreviations if you like!" (I was joking about the cloud thing...sort of). Anyway, we were driving home from a scholarship competition when all of this went down, and we stopped at my Grandparents to pick up my sister, and my grandma had M&Ms. She had the peanut and regular ones mixed, and I dumped a bunch on a plate. I started eating the peanut ones first, and when I got done, the regular ones were the school colors of one of my schools. And when I saw that, I just KNEW that I was supposed to go to that school. And after having been here for 5 years, there is no doubt in my mind that this is where I was meant to be. (I'm in grad school, now, I'm not just that slow. ) I'm obviously not saying that everyone should go consult a bag of M&Ms about their decisions (though that is now the joke in my family), but don't be too quick to discount ways that God can speak to us.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1287552078' post='2180940']
I would and I have. I honestly chose my college based off of M&Ms. Seriously. I had and equal percentage of school paid for by scholarships at either school I wanted to go to. The pros and cons were pretty much equal. My mom told me to pray. I said, "God, I need help, and I'm really dense. Please give me a very obvious sign. I would prefer it written across the sky in clouds...and you can even use abbreviations if you like!" (I was joking about the cloud thing...sort of). Anyway, we were driving home from a scholarship competition when all of this went down, and we stopped at my Grandparents to pick up my sister, and my grandma had M&Ms. She had the peanut and regular ones mixed, and I dumped a bunch on a plate. I started eating the peanut ones first, and when I got done, the regular ones were the school colors of one of my schools. And when I saw that, I just KNEW that I was supposed to go to that school. And after having been here for 5 years, there is no doubt in my mind that this is where I was meant to be. (I'm in grad school, now, I'm not just that slow. ) I'm obviously not saying that everyone should go consult a bag of M&Ms about their decisions (though that is now the joke in my family), but don't be too quick to discount ways that God can speak to us.
[/quote]

I'm obviously very glad that you chose the right school for you. But, what would have happened if you had eaten the plain M&M's first, and the peanut ones were the color of the other school? Would you have followed that "sign," or would you have ignored it and gone to the first school because your reason and your intuition knew it was the right school for you? I have no idea. Just sayin'

I have a natural suspicion of using "minor signs" like M&Ms or even red and white roses to make major decisions for our lives. We hear the stories of where these "signs" have led people to the right decision, but not many where they have led to the wrong decision. There could be all kinds of reasons for that, but one reason is that I suspect people ignore small "signs" that don't match what they know deep inside is what God wants for them. To me, small signs remind of pulling the petals off daisies as a kid, and saying "He loves me, he loves me not." I'm not saying signs, even small signs, don't happen, but just as the Church is always careful about saying that apparitions such as "Jesus in the tortilla" are real, so I am careful about small, miscellaneous signs.

What I have learned (the hard way) to listen to are not "signs" but "red flags." In my definition, a "red flag" is something in someone's behavior, or something that happens, that is telling us something important about a situation, or a decision, that, at least in my case, I decided to ignore because it was not what I wanted to hear, and I made at least one huge mistake. But, these are different than "miscellaneous signs" like red or white roses. These are things that happen or observations about a person or situation. And, usually there is more than one "red flag" if we pay attention to them.

That said, I am not completely cynical about signs, even small signs. I would never try to predict how God works, because God's ways are far beyond my understandinig.

But, I have a sneaking suspicion that the priest who got the "red rose" sign, had already made his decision in his mind and heart about God's will for him, and the red rose simply helped him get over his fear. If no roses had shown up that day, I suspect he would have made the same decision. And, if a white rose showed up, if his mind and heart knew that God meant him to become a priest, he might, for example, have interpreted the white rose as the devil trying to trick him.

Most of us don't get "Road to Damascus" experiences like St. Paul's--that was a sign that was quite a big stronger than a red rose. But, some of us do get those major signs. I certain don't dismiss major signs, or even some very small signs. I am just very careful about using "small signs" to make major decisions in our lives.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1287607695' post='2181105']
I'm obviously very glad that you chose the right school for you. But, what would have happened if you had eaten the plain M&M's first, and the peanut ones were the color of the other school? Would you have followed that "sign," or would you have ignored it and gone to the first school because your reason and your intuition knew it was the right school for you? I have no idea. Just sayin'[/quote]
But I didn't, and that's the point. If I had done it the other way around, I trust that God would have provided for that. It really doesn't make sense to say "what if this happened" because it DIDN'T happen, and that's the point. That being said, with nothing else but a plate of M&Ms (if I hadn't asked for a clear sign), I wouldn't have decided either way, but there was a sense of KNOWING that accompanied it, and in all the stories I've heard of the roses, I've heard, at least implicitly, that same sense. I wouldn't have felt that way without the sign, though, so the sign was a necessity.

[quote]
I have a natural suspicion of using "minor signs" like M&Ms or even red and white roses to make major decisions for our lives. We hear the stories of where these "signs" have led people to the right decision, but not many where they have led to the wrong decision. There could be all kinds of reasons for that, but one reason is that I suspect people ignore small "signs" that don't match what they know deep inside is what God wants for them. To me, small signs remind of pulling the petals off daisies as a kid, and saying "He loves me, he loves me not." I'm not saying signs, even small signs, don't happen, but just as the Church is always careful about saying that apparitions such as "Jesus in the tortilla" are real, so I am careful about small, miscellaneous signs.

What I have learned (the hard way) to listen to are not "signs" but "red flags." In my definition, a "red flag" is something in someone's behavior, or something that happens, that is telling us something important about a situation, or a decision, that, at least in my case, I decided to ignore because it was not what I wanted to hear, and I made at least one huge mistake. But, these are different than "miscellaneous signs" like red or white roses. These are things that happen or observations about a person or situation. And, usually there is more than one "red flag" if we pay attention to them.

That said, I am not completely cynical about signs, even small signs. I would never try to predict how God works, because God's ways are far beyond my understandinig.

But, I have a sneaking suspicion that the priest who got the "red rose" sign, had already made his decision in his mind and heart about God's will for him, and the red rose simply helped him get over his fear. If no roses had shown up that day, I suspect he would have made the same decision. And, if a white rose showed up, if his mind and heart knew that God meant him to become a priest, he might, for example, have interpreted the white rose as the devil trying to trick him.

Most of us don't get "Road to Damascus" experiences like St. Paul's--that was a sign that was quite a big stronger than a red rose. But, some of us do get those major signs. I certain don't dismiss major signs, or even some very small signs. I am just very careful about using "small signs" to make major decisions in our lives.
[/quote]
You can believe that the decision would have been made that way, anyway, and that's your perogative, but "small signs" are the reason I am living where I am today, and my sister is in Nashville. I've had people scoff at it, and it doesn't bother me, I know what an impact they have had on my life. I take a lot more convincing if things come out of the blue, but if I ask for a sign, and one is given, I don't find it my place to doubt God's ability to alter things to tell me what He wants. But that's just my 2 cents. It won't offend me if you disagree.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1287616372' post='2181143']
But I didn't, and that's the point. If I had done it the other way around, I trust that God would have provided for that. It really doesn't make sense to say "what if this happened" because it DIDN'T happen, and that's the point. That being said, with nothing else but a plate of M&Ms (if I hadn't asked for a clear sign), I wouldn't have decided either way, but there was a sense of KNOWING that accompanied it, and in all the stories I've heard of the roses, I've heard, at least implicitly, that same sense. I wouldn't have felt that way without the sign, though, so the sign was a necessity.


You can believe that the decision would have been made that way, anyway, and that's your perogative, but "small signs" are the reason I am living where I am today, and my sister is in Nashville. I've had people scoff at it, and it doesn't bother me, I know what an impact they have had on my life. I take a lot more convincing if things come out of the blue, but if I ask for a sign, and one is given, I don't find it my place to doubt God's ability to alter things to tell me what He wants. But that's just my 2 cents. It won't offend me if you disagree.
[/quote]

I'm not going to disagree, because, although I think I have some ideas how God can work, I am forever being surprised, so I wouldn't discount anything you have experienced. It sounds as if you have much more experience of "small signs" in your life than I have. Ask me in five years, and I may have an entirely different opinion.

I'd only be concerned if you or someone else made a major decision ONLY based on "small signs." But, obviously you didn't do this. You clearly had researched both schools and prayed it about a lot, so the "small sign" was a culmination--a final decision made after doing "due diligence."

[MissScripture]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1287619089' post='2181157']
I'm not going to disagree, because, although I think I have some ideas how God can work, I am forever being surprised, so I wouldn't discount anything you have experienced. It sounds as if you have much more experience of "small signs" in your life than I have. Ask me in five years, and I may have an entirely different opinion.

I'd only be concerned if you or someone else made a major decision ONLY based on "small signs." But, obviously you didn't do this. You clearly had researched both schools and prayed it about a lot, so the "small sign" was a culmination--a final decision made after doing "due diligence."
[/quote]
I also sincerely think that is has to do with my difficulty in making decisions. Both my sister and I are the sort of people you hate to go out with to a restaurant. We take FOREVER to decide something as simple as what we want to eat, partially because we have to consider every aspect --like, how much it will cost, each of the other options, etc, etc. So, when it comes to bigger decisions, we thoroughly research everything, possibly too much. And end up sitting around weighing our options forever! God, of course, knows this, and so when we ask Him to help out, He probably realizes that if He doesn't, He'll be sitting around waiting for us to decide for the next six centuries, and so He's like, "Okay, *sign* THERE YOU GO! Now get on with it!"

And, like I said, if it were something small, out of the blue, I would be very wary about it, but all of the signs I've had have come after specifically asking for one (similar to someone asking for a rose), and with a sense of assurance. For example, if someone hadn't been praying about recieving a rose, and they happened across a rose, I wouldn't view that as a sign of anything.

[Deus te Amat]

If you read St. Ignatius of Loyola, he wrote that signs are one of the ways God helps us discern. It's not necessary, but it does happen. It did for me. Multiple times. Further details will have to be extracted slowly and with much prodding.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Deus_te_Amat