"if That Bubble Touches Me, I'm Going To Arrest You"

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287540570' post='2180890']
An imperfect Republic. But not an actual police state. Things we can change, we still have large sums of liberty here. And you are using that liberty now.
[/quote]

When does it stop. How much police action must there be? The use of the Patriot of the act was limited bu the powers were dangerous and unprecedented and completely against our constitutional protections.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287540570' post='2180890']
I am sorry but reason should tell anyone these days you cannot move large sums of money from a Terrorist prone state and think you'll just pass through customs with flying colours. Asking the US Embassy would have been the place to start.
[/quote]
He was leaving the American green zone free and clear, made it to Germany free and clear and then got into Virgina and the incident happened.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287540570' post='2180890']
Because the G-20 protesters are just peaceful flower children who dont dare set police cars on fire on anything violent like that. Please accuse me while I call BS. They cause riots they get in the face of the police and by all means appear to want to be arrested.
[/quote]
Some were. Some black people are criminals. My friends from elementary school deal drugs. Association is no crime.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287540570' post='2180890']
Your last statement was unclear, this one is clearer. The US armed forces have been putting down traitors for sometime. If you join the enemy in war, you will be treated as one.
[/quote]
THE US PRESIDENT HAS BEEN GIVEN POWER TO ASSASSINATE HIS OWN CITIZENS. Does this not disturb you? Do you have any idea what the protections of due process are? What is the point of our protections if things can be done in the name of national security. Hitler came into power because first he passed the emergency powers act. He didn't march in with foot soldiers. He used his powers that were granted him for evil. OUR PRESIDENT TODAY HAS THE RIGHT TO CIRCUMVENT DUE PROCESS TO KILL AMERICAN CITIZENS. Do you understand how this could be a danger to your liberty? National security is no reason to remove basic liberties. If it were then we would be defending something by means that contradict it. You can't defend Catholicism by murdering all your enemies, because you would have morally forsaken your position. This does not even pose the slightest problem for you? What about our founding fathers? What about the wisdom of limited government, of a president not a dictator?

[havok579257]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1287524741' post='2180795']
I didn't say why she was arrested. Nor do I care why she was allegedly arrested. So there's no twisting going on here, Havok. I posted the video for one reason alone: the words and actions of that cop before[i] anything else[/i] took place.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


and what was wrong with his words or actions. telling somoene to stop blowing bubbles in your face does not make you corrupt. the cop did nothing wrong by telling her to stop.

[havok579257]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' timestamp='1287539664' post='2180879']
If we do not live in a police state, what do you consider Waco? What do you consider the IRS, or the FBI's powers?

I didn't know my father was unaware of the proper channels. I suppose you do?

Just because I am not beat up for what I say now, evidently as evidenced by the G-20 summit, there sure are places.

The president has no right to assassinate any US citizen without a fair trial. This is the constitution. He is not a dictator, he is a president.
[/quote]


man you have no idea what a police state is. go to north korea and slam their government and see how long you live.

dude, you can not transfer large amount of money from a terroist hotbed state and not expect the country to red flag that. you do know not all terroists are musliums? thats not unfair, thats right. it is the states responsibilty to protect its citizens from external threats. something this could possibly be.

an evidence by the g-20 summit, people will riot for no reason at all just to riot and be anarchists.

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1287542448' post='2180898']
and what was wrong with his words or actions. telling somoene to stop blowing bubbles in your face does not make you corrupt. the cop did nothing wrong by telling her to stop.
[/quote]

He has the moral sanction of the state. He should excercise great prudence in his attitude. Popes have the moral sanction of the Church, as do bishops and priests. They use prudence too. It isn't about the legality (her arrest was illegal, but that isn't the issue) but rather how police view themselves. Do they see themselves as protectors of liberty or enforcers of the state?

[havok579257]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' timestamp='1287543119' post='2180901']
He has the moral sanction of the state. He should excercise great prudence in his attitude. Popes have the moral sanction of the Church, as do bishops and priests. They use prudence too. It isn't about the legality (her arrest was illegal, but that isn't the issue) but rather how police view themselves. Do they see themselves as protectors of liberty or enforcers of the state?
[/quote]


please show me what he said or did that was so wrong? told an unchristian women to stop annoying him? oh that evil, evil man.

i see cops as protectors of liberty. i work with cops on a daily basis. i see everything they do on calls. i see exactly how they act. they protect people a heck of a lot more than they are enforcers of the state. although if all you do is watch tv to get your facts, well i can see why your misguided.

[Jesus_lol]

actually, there were plenty of reasons for people to be pissed off at the g20. like the fact that somehow it cost us canadians a BILLION DOLLARS.

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1287543046' post='2180900']
man you have no idea what a police state is. go to north korea and slam their government and see how long you live.

dude, you can not transfer large amount of money from a terroist hotbed state and not expect the country to red flag that. you do know not all terroists are musliums? thats not unfair, thats right. it is the states responsibilty to protect its citizens from external threats. something this could possibly be.

an evidence by the g-20 summit, people will riot for no reason at all just to riot and be anarchists.
[/quote]

I was born in one. I understand the limitations. Do you not see that silencing protesters is the same thing? It is an encroachment, never an overnight thing. It is not a jump from liberty to tyranny. It is slow. Judge Napalitano is a great Catholic thinker on this, you can youtube him.

Evidently the IRAQI GREEN ZONE HAD NO PROBLEM. Do you not understand that? There were provisions in the Patriot Act that did not permit what was permissible abroad. Does this make sense? He was coming from IRAQ. ALL the terrorists have been Muslims from Iraqi, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of the middle East.

They were protesting the environmental policies of the G-20 nations. I absolutely do not care about their cause. However, because some people do some bad things is no reason to harass and stifle the whole group. Does that make sense? Other arabs blow up buildings, I don't. Some of my friends deal drugs, I don't. It's not a crime to be in the same group as people.

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1287543320' post='2180903']
please show me what he said or did that was so wrong? told an unchristian women to stop annoying him? oh that evil, evil man.

i see cops as protectors of liberty. i work with cops on a daily basis. i see everything they do on calls. i see exactly how they act. they protect people a heck of a lot more than they are enforcers of the state. although if all you do is watch tv to get your facts, well i can see why your misguided.
[/quote]


See them as you will. An IRS agent is no protector of liberty. Neither is the FBI. Neither are the police when they are enforcers of the government's ban on drugs. (I don't condone drug use, but it is an individual liberty decision, not a state one.) He is not a protector of liberty when he uses excessive force.

Now, this officer told the lady to put down the bubbles and threatened her with an arrest for assault. Now, no judge would ever hold this up as assault. He was intimidating her with the force of the state. That would be the first abuse. He was also not terribly polite while she had done nothing wrong and the other officer was clearly not bothered. Thirdly, he did not show the reservation required of his position. The second and third are important because it indicates he sees himself as part of the state and an enforcer of the state. He is not concerned with her liberty to protest. He is of a different class of citizen than her. He is an enforcer. She is the subject. You see the power struggle. That is not the ideal of the free state where we are all equal citizens, from the president to the common voter.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' timestamp='1287543447' post='2180905']Evidently the IRAQI GREEN ZONE HAD NO PROBLEM. Do you not understand that? There were provisions in the Patriot Act that did not permit what was permissible abroad. Does this make sense? He was coming from IRAQ. ALL the terrorists have been Muslims from Iraqi, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of the middle East.[/quote]

So what, they didn't catch the problem till he got to into the US. That presents a different problem, one that should have been caught before he got to the US. This has happened before, and should be fixed.

[quote name='MichaelFilo' timestamp='1287543447' post='2180905']They were protesting the environmental policies of the G-20 nations. I absolutely do not care about their cause. However, because some people do some bad things is no reason to harass and stifle the whole group. Does that make sense? Other arabs blow up buildings, I don't. Some of my friends deal drugs, I don't. It's not a crime to be in the same group as people.
[/quote]

Some? Most of the G-20 summits have riots by these folks. It would be stupid of the police to not be prepared. The police are forced to be on edge.

Edited October 20, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1287539680' post='2180880']
wow?[/quote]

Wow/zing.


[quote]true.
[/quote]

Verbum.

~Sternhauser

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287544057' post='2180913']
Some? Most of the G-20 summits have riots by these folks. It would be stupid of the police to not be prepared. The police are forced to be on edge.
[/quote]

Knight, did you know the Statepolice used [i]agents provocateurs [/i]with rocks in the G20, at a peaceful protest? Do you know they did it at the G20 at Pittsburgh, too?

~Sternhauser

Edited October 20, 2010 by Sternhauser

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287544057' post='2180913']
So what, they didn't catch the problem till he got to into the US. That presents a different problem, one that should have been caught before he got to the US. This has happened before, and should be fixed.



Some? Most of the G-20 summits have riots by these folks. It would be stupid of the police to not be prepared. The police are forced to be on edge.
[/quote]

I understand being prepared, but you can hardly call officer Bubbles being prepared. Look at the officer next to him. I know it's hard to imagine, but some police abuse their power sometimes, and it becomes more frequent as they become more empowered by the state. They are a special class of people who have the right to assault you, take your goods, and the like without actual punishment. Why? Because only two people have the power to fire those police, the police DEPT themselves OR the district attorney. The first doesn't want to for obvious reasons (because it is an admission of guilt and a loss of personnel) and the latter doesn't want to because you don't get elected to office running on a platform of cop firings.

That is how it plays out in practice.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1287569278' post='2180970']
Knight, did you know the Statepolice used [i]agents provocateurs [/i]with rocks in the G20, at a peaceful protest? Do you know they did it at the G20 at Pittsburgh, too?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
Did you know that the U.S. Government flew planes into buildings so we could invade other countries? I can even link you to a website with authoritative proof!

Edited October 20, 2010 by notardillacid

[havok579257]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' timestamp='1287543447' post='2180905']
I was born in one. I understand the limitations. Do you not see that silencing protesters is the same thing? It is an encroachment, never an overnight thing. It is not a jump from liberty to tyranny. It is slow. Judge Napalitano is a great Catholic thinker on this, you can youtube him.

Evidently the IRAQI GREEN ZONE HAD NO PROBLEM. Do you not understand that? There were provisions in the Patriot Act that did not permit what was permissible abroad. Does this make sense? He was coming from IRAQ. ALL the terrorists have been Muslims from Iraqi, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of the middle East.

They were protesting the environmental policies of the G-20 nations. I absolutely do not care about their cause. However, because some people do some bad things is no reason to harass and stifle the whole group. Does that make sense? Other arabs blow up buildings, I don't. Some of my friends deal drugs, I don't. It's not a crime to be in the same group as people.
[/quote]


if you hang out with your friend while they are dealing drugs and the cops come up, do you honestly think the cops should not suspect you of dealing drugs also? if you hang around drug dealers and are associated with them and hang out with them when they do business, then the cops have every reason to believe that you are dealing drugs. that is commen sense.

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1287585577' post='2181005']
if you hang out with your friend while they are dealing drugs and the cops come up, do you honestly think the cops should not suspect you of dealing drugs also? if you hang around drug dealers and are associated with them and hang out with them when they do business, then the cops have every reason to believe that you are dealing drugs. that is commen sense.
[/quote]


They were at the same protest, they were not standing next to broken windows. It is a HUGE protest. If one black person during the civil rights movement shoved a cop, should they all be beaten?

Yes, if I stand next to drug dealers as they deal drugs I should be questioned. I don't condone it so I wouldn't be around them when they did. But this was not a parallel situation. These were people at the same protest.