A Discussion On Nation And Catholics

[Lil Red]

Should American Catholics believe in American exceptionalism? How should Catholics view their country that they live in?

[HopefulBride]

The way I see it, one's Catholic identity should always come first. No exceptions - It should be Catholic American rather than American Catholic.

Just my opinion of course.

[Mr.Cat]

I am pro-individuality, be yourself. When you let others project identity onto you or superimpose an identity over yourself, it tends to lend itself against one's well-being and health.

I forget who the Cardinal was, I think it was the prefect for "[i]Causes of Saints[/i]"... said that there isn't any specific prototype for a Saint or good Catholic. That it isn't becoming someone that your not. That it isn't necessarily an ideological, political, economic, or social status. It is having the fullness of one's own humanity, allowing grace to build on nature to magnify one's life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

After skimming this article I am more convinced that people with an fundamentalist approach to patriotism would proudly argue "[i]MY pile of garbage is [u]higher[/u] than YOUR pile of garbage![/i]" Having a healthy patriotism is fine when voluntarily done, but pretending that were the BEST nation on Earth just because we happen to live here seems a little silly to me.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Mr Cat

[Socrates]

Define "American exceptionalism."

[Socrates]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1287169617' post='2179811']
The way I see it, one's Catholic identity should always come first. No exceptions - It should be Catholic American rather than American Catholic.

Just my opinion of course.
[/quote]
Agreed.

And you can substitute any other country for America in that statement as well.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1287164270' post='2179800']
Should American Catholics believe in American exceptionalism? How should Catholics view their country that they live in?
[/quote]

Please define "nation" and "country," as well, and as Socrates rightly asked, define "American exceptionalism."


~Sternhauser

[Lilllabettt]

Patriotism is a virtue. The Saints were patriotic.
True patriotism, however, is not "my country right or wrong" rah rah rah.
King David sang love songs to Israel, and Jeremiah yelled "Jerusalem, you whore!"
True patriotism makes room for both.

[Era Might]

Christ makes us prophets, not patriots. Christians are supposed to be the ones who get the point of the joke when everyone else is scratching their heads trying to figure out why we're laughing. Take, for example, something like a nation at war. In the usual understanding of "patriotism," the "patriots" are the ones who "support" their country at war (whatever that means), and the "non-patriots" are the ones who don't "support" their country (or who even oppose it). To me, the unique contribution of Christians is neither support nor opposition (non-Christians are fully capable of doing both), but rather, to prophetically expose. The Angel in the Book of Revelation cries, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of her impure passion" (Revelation 14:8). Another Angel cries, "If any one worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also shall drink the wine of God's wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb" (Revelation 14:9-10). These cries are the cries neither of patriots nor of non-patriots. They are the cries of Christian prophecy. To me, prophecy (and I mean prophecy in its widest sense) can be, in its own way, a form of patriotism. Though unfortunately, Christian prophecy is lost when it becomes just a dressing for patriotism (e.g., when some Christians turn the cry against the beast and its mark into a political statement that supposedly confirms the narrative of "American exceptionalism").

Edited October 16, 2010 by Era Might

[Lil Red]

american exceptionalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

[Maggyie]

I think, at a deep level, there is a difference between loving your country and loving your nation-state. I could be wrong but I believe the nation-state is a relatively new phenomenon. But everyone is called by God to love his or her country, just as we are all called to love our neighbor.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1287257561' post='2180027']I could be wrong but I believe the nation-state is a relatively new phenomenon.[/quote]That is what my human geography book from college argued...

[MichaelFilo]

America is the first country of it's kind, built on a system of government that comes from forethought rather than the political winds. We, as well as the USSR were built on ideas and indeed are exceptional. Today's China and Korea have been reduced to dictatorial states and are distant from communism. If a country is an exception to the rule, we truly are exceptional in our founding, and so must be in our destiny.

Today, we are far removed from our principals that made us exceptional, so today it is a foolish idea, but how could American exceptionalism contradict our Catholic faith? Indeed, it is only the philosophies of the Catholic faith base in Aristotle and expounded by Aquinas about humanity that we can even have America. Individual liberty and human dignity are not distant ideas, and we are the first nation to based our government on that. We've done much to destroy the protections and our idea of rights today, so it is hard to talk about America being exceptional today. Nonetheless, American exceptionalism is tied indiscernibly with human dignity which is a truly Catholic idea.

Edited October 18, 2010 by MichaelFilo