Carmelite/art Experts - Please Identify This Painting For Me

[Rising_Suns]

I do not have any information on it, other than it likely originated from Spain and was featured in the movie "St. Teresa of Avila".

Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.


[img]http://www.religious-vocation.com/images/unknown-spanish-painting.jpg[/img]

Thank you.

[Chiquitunga]

After researching online a bit .. my guess is that is one by the Spanish artist from the 16th century, [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10557a.htm"]Luis de Morales[/url]. He has done a number of Pieta paintings like this that I ran into .. [url="http://images.artnet.com/WebServices/picture.aspx?date=20001214&catalog=13514&gallery=111548&lot=00063&filetype=2"]here[/url] , [url="http://www.art.com/products/p12013303-sa-i1459082/luis-de-morales-the-pieta.htm?sorig=cat&sorigid=239909&dimvals=239909&ui=a2f6c15e3c4348bc8bb1bb78c9a85375"]here[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Luis_de_Morales_-_Piet%C3%A0.jpg"]here[/url] & [url="http://www.artfinding.com/Artwork/Paintings/Luis-de-Morales/The-Pieta/5532.html"]here[/url] .. and there were a few others ..

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Luis_de_Morales_010.jpg[/img]


Beautiful .. Maybe it was one especially made for nuns at the monastery of the Incarnation, where St. Teresa first entered (which is an OCD Carmel now) and where much of this movie was filmed. If I remember correctly, in the movie the voice of the actress who plays her in that particular scene where she is praying/crying in front of this painting is narrating from this part from her autobiography ..

[quote]
[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"][i]It happened that, entering the oratory one day, I saw an image which had been procured for a certain festival that was observed in the house and had been taken there to be kept for that purpose. It represented Christ sorely wounded; and so conductive was it to devotion that when I looked at it I was deeply moved to see Him thus, so well did it picture what He suffered for us. So great was my distress when I thought how ill I had repaid Him for those wounds that I felt as if my heart were breaking, and I threw myself down beside Him, shedding floods of tears and begging Him to give me strength once for all so that I would not rise from that spot until He had granted me what I was beseeching of Him. And I feel sure that this did me good, for from that time onward I began to improve (in prayer and virtue).[/i][/size][/font][/quote]

I ran into this quote here .. http://www.visionsofjesuschrist.com/weeping114.htm .. which seems to attribute this image to the little statue of Christ Scourged (or the crucifix there), which she used to carry around with her .. as they depicted in the movie also. So now I wonder which particular image was she referring to in this paragraph .. Anyway, the next time I get the chance, I shall ask a few others who might know. And have wondered about this painting in that movie too .. Thanks for asking about it. Maybe they still have it there in the Incarnation ..

By the way, that scene in that movie is indeed a beautiful/heart wrenching one! Would that I could have the same contrition for my sins that she had!! St. Teresa, pray for us! (especially during these Novena days before thy feast/solemnity in Carmel )

Edited October 7, 2010 by Chiquitunga

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1286420013' post='2178292']I ran into this quote here .. [url="http://www.visionsofjesuschrist.com/weeping114.htm"]http://www.visionsof.../weeping114.htm[/url] .. which seems to attribute this image to the little statue of Christ Scourged (or the crucifix there), which she used to carry around with her .. as they depicted in the movie also. So now I wonder which particular image was she referring to in this paragraph .. [/quote]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it [i]was[/i] the statue she was referring to her in autobiography there. Just in the movie they have her before this Pieta picture saying something in first person I think it was to this effect also .. a dramatic heart wrenching scene ..

Here it is around 30 seconds .. and with her before that statue too

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5U8nJ4xn-c[/media]

And another before this painting .. oh how I love this movie! [font="Arial"][size="2"][b][i]¡¡¡[/i][/b][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"][b][i]Tú serás [i]mi libro vivo !!![/i][/i][/b][/size][/font]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cka8NsnHhiQ

Edited October 8, 2010 by Chiquitunga

[Rising_Suns]

Thank you for the information Chiquitunga. You have been very helpful even though we have not yet identified the painting. I have tried following up on your leads, doing research of my own, but I was still unable to find this image anywhere. I may visit Spain at some point in the future, so perhaps I can follow up further on the trip. It is really quite an impressive painting, and I am surprised that it is not more well known. It seems to fit perfectly with what Saint Teresa so eloquently describes in the passage you quoted.

¡Alabanza a Jesucristo,

Davide

Edited October 8, 2010 by Rising_Suns

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Rising_Suns' timestamp='1286576879' post='2178638']
Thank you for the information Chiquitunga. You have been very helpful even though we have not yet identified the painting. I have tried following up on your leads, doing research of my own, but I was still unable to find this image anywhere. I may visit Spain at some point in the future, so perhaps I can follow up further on the trip. It is really quite an impressive painting, and I am surprised that it is not more well known. It seems to fit perfectly with what Saint Teresa so eloquently describes in the passage you quoted.

¡Alabanza a Jesucristo,

Davide
[/quote]

¡Ahora y para siempre!

Wow, that's great you're going to Spain! Yes, perhaps you will be able to follow up more on this there. I would be very surprised if this was not done by Luis de Morales. Some things in all of the images that resemble each other so much for instance are Our Lady's hands and how they're positioned and especially her thumb .. also her wimple/veil. And although Christ's beard is much fuller in this one than in the others, still it separates in two at the end. So I would guess the identity of the painting, as the others are, is simply [i]La Piedad (Pieta)[/i], by Luis de Morales. I think there's a good chance if it was done for the nuns and is still in their monastery, that maybe it was never reproduced, and thus there would be no way to find a picture of it online. I wonder though if you might try writing the nuns at the Monastery of the Incarnation to see. Maybe it is not even there, but maybe it is. Anyway, here is their address from the official OCD site ..

Monasterio de la Encarnación
05005 Avila
España

Also there's a museum you could try writing there too .. though whomever opens their mail may not know the specifics on all of the paintings inside the enclosure, if it's there .. anyway, these are only speculations .. here is their address ..

Museo Teresiano
Monasterio de La Encarnación
Paseo de la Encarnación
05005 Ávila

God bless and have a wonderful trip to Spain! I would so love to visit there, especially Avila, before I enter. We'll see .. whatever is God's will

Edited October 11, 2010 by Chiquitunga

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Rising_Suns' timestamp='1286394568' post='2178202']
[img]http://www.religious-vocation.com/images/unknown-spanish-painting.jpg[/img][/quote]


I was just searching a bit more tonight and came upon this unique tryptic one [url="http://pintura.aut.org/SearchProducto?Produnum=77940"]here[/url] with St. Mary Magdalene and St. John (as well as many others I hadn't run across before .. he sure painted a lot of these) In this one, both of Our Lady's hands look especially similar to the one you're looking for.


[img]http://i56.tinypic.com/sltlw5.jpg[/img]

[Chiquitunga]

Also, I looked up some other Spanish painters from that time and earlier, but their Pietas are totally different. This one must be by Luis de Morales.

[quote name='Rising_Suns' timestamp='1286576879' post='2178638']
It is really quite an impressive painting, and I am surprised that it is not more well known. It seems to fit perfectly with what Saint Teresa so eloquently describes in the passage you quoted [/quote]

I agree, although I believe it was that statue of Christ Scourged that she was referring to there. This is from a little book a friend scanned for me which she got from the Monastery of the Incarnation itself. I can email you the whole book if you would like. It does not include this painting, but many other images you will recognize from the movie. I do wonder if St. Teresa had a devotion to this Pieta image as well .. as depicted in the movie. If it was there, I bet she did.

[img]http://i56.tinypic.com/34oo7y0.png[/img]

[Chiquitunga]

Okay, this one is the closest I've seen so far .. especially Our Lord's Face and His Hair going over His Shoulder in the same way.

[img]http://lh4.ggpht.com/_tREAPnubX7w/SYhxKlERbQI/AAAAAAAABDg/Lkj7QictA_k/s400/morales.jpg[/img]

I found this one [url="http://www.san-vicente-siguenza.es/cofradia-san-juan.htm"]here[/url], from the website of a parish in Spain (though I just noticed it's not there, but in the [url="http://www4.planalfa.es/obsiguenza/musdioc.htm"]Diocesan Museum of Sigüenza[/url]) If they hadn't taken a picture of this and put it online, there would probably have been no way for us to see this.

So again, I'm guessing the one you're looking for was made for the nuns at the monastery, and possibly no reproduction/picture of it was ever taken, or at least put online. So I think the next best place to go (besides searching more online .. or maybe emailing some museums over there) to see if you can obtain a copy of this, or find out for sure where it is, would be by writing the nuns or the museum at the above addresses in Avila (this is my 4th post in a row here, just to let you know, so you don't miss any)

Also, I noticed in my searches another name for Luis de Morales is "El Divino" Here's another page on him with many of his paintings at the bottom, http://www.espanolsinfronteras.com/Elarteylahistoria10LPintoresLuisdeMorales.htm

Edited October 12, 2010 by Chiquitunga

[Rising_Suns]

Dear Chiquitunga,
Thank you for the very helpful information, and the addresses as well. This will help me in following up, when I take my trip to Spain.

I think your analysis is correct, in that it is likely Luis de Morales (or if not, perhaps a protege? someone who copied his style?). In either case, I may end up making a number of visits to the local convents and monasteries in Spain, and will keep it in my mind to inquire about this painting.

Thank you again for your help in this.


.

[Chiquitunga]

You're very welcome! It was great researching this as I ended up finding a bunch of interesting things along the way, like these videos. I was thinking of starting a separate thread on this, but never got around to it, so I'll just post them here. Here is one from JPII's visit in 1982.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Vtw2eTerQ[/media]

Actually, one of the Sisters at the [url="http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/166"]Carmel in Alexandria, SD[/url] entered there in 1980, so she may be one of the Novices here. She was there for 16 years before she felt an internal call to help found this new Carmel in SD. I have a little article on her from the Sioux Falls diocesan newspaper for her 25th anniversary, but it's not online anymore. I can email it anyway. She was from Portland, OR.

And here is a First Profession from there from last year. I downloaded the original one and uploaded it again myself, as the other one had one of those ads attached to it.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q4_IKrNVpk[/media]

The description I put in the information section ..

[quote]A short clip from the ceremony of the First Profession of Sr. Maria Teresa of the Immaculate, OCD at the Monastery of the Incarnation in Avila, March 28, 2009 (the birth of St. Teresa of Avila) Bishop García Burillo presided over the ceremony, which took place in the Chapel of the Transverberation, which is in the location of the original cell of St. Teresa where she received this singular grace. The original video and article from Spain says she "took the habit" but this is definitely a First Profession ceremony for a few reasons including 1) the bishop presided over it .. this would not be the case for a clothing ceremony 2) the questions he asks her are the ones asked at a profession 3) in the article it says she signed a vow formula So anyway, congratulations to Sr. Maria Teresa!

[url="http://www.diariodeavila.es/noticia.cfm/Local/20090329/nueva/hermana/toma/habito/encarnacion/situa/30/numero/carmelitas/4E8FAA3D-1A64-968D-598C09319E56FA89"]http://www.diariodea...98C09319E56FA89[/url] [/quote]

I looked carefully, but couldn't find this painting in either of them, but yes, maybe you will find it on your trip to Spain. Oh, and something else I found .. a blog of the chaplain there, Msgr. Nicolás González - [url="http://nicolas-capellanencarnacionavila.blogspot.com/"]http://nicolas-capel...a.blogspot.com/[/url] So maybe you can email him about it.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Chiquitunga

[Chiquitunga]

Adding another neat video here .. from the Carmel in Alba de Tormes, where she died. They have a little museum there of her too, and her heart is persevered there. Wow. another great place to visit, Davide ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCNwYmEJ65s

[Rising_Suns]

Dear Chiquitunga,
Thank you for posting these videos. You are giving me more ideas for places to visit on my trip; my mind has been now churning over it in anticipation, though I still have much time before I begin planning (Todavía no sé muy bien el español. Pero he estado estudiando todos los días, poco a poco.).

Thank you again for your help in this. Por favor, pide intensamente por mí.

Davide