Adam And Eve

[willguy]

As was mentioned, the feast of Adam and Eve is the day before Easter, Dec. 24. I'm not sure if its a feast like we have feasts for saints or if it is supposed to remind us of the first Adam and Eve before we celebrate the birth of the New Adam.

[ilovechrist]

uh.. willguy,
the day before Easter is not Dec. 24th... that's Christmas Eve. just thought i'd make sure where you were coming from on that.

[Quietfire]

No, Brother Adam, that is not what Jason was stating. Your question was how could they know about the saints. He was simply explaining the process of beautification. The specific was 'sainthood'. As far as your question in entirity, I would ask a priest on that one. Cause I'm stumped.
I understand it as.
Arent we (or the church) deciding if someone is worthy of sainthood? Which means we have judged them to be good? As opposed to not good? And what give them that right?

Something like that?

[Jake Huether]

The Church can only judge if someone IS in heaven. She cannot judge if someone is GOING to heaven.

That is why normally the cause for a person isn't even opened until 50 years later! There are signs that a person is in heaven, like a miracle through their intercession. But there are no such signs that someone is going to heaven (for at their last breath they can reject God).

There are likewise no such signs that a person is in hell. God could allow a soul in hell to come to earth, so I suppose there are signs that a person is in hell already. But it wouldn't make sense for the Church to canonize someone a devil. LOL. Hey we would then have examples of what NOT to do! LOL. I imagine the Church does this for the sake of hope. It would be pretty tacky for the Church to declare someones family member damned.

Anyway. Just some thoughts.

Hope that clears things up..

[willguy]

[quote name='ilovechrist' date='Apr 19 2004, 09:58 AM'] uh.. willguy,
the day before Easter is not Dec. 24th... that's Christmas Eve. just thought i'd make sure where you were coming from on that. [/quote]
Wow, I'm stupid*2. I meant Christmas.

[amarkich]

Properly speaking, Adam and Eve went to the Limbo of the Fathers (that which was a sort of resting place which, as far as I understand, also included purgation and temporal punishment due to sin, until the Resurrection and the opening of Heaven). After this they went to Heaven.

[quote]As was mentioned, the feast of Adam and Eve is the day before Easter, Dec. 24. I'm not sure if its a feast like we have feasts for saints or if it is supposed to remind us of the first Adam and Eve before we celebrate the birth of the New Adam. [/quote]

Feast Days have always been the same.

God bless.

Edited April 20, 2004 by amarkich

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Apr 19 2004, 11:12 AM'] No, Brother Adam, that is not what Jason was stating. Your question was how could they know about the saints. He was simply explaining the process of beautification. The specific was 'sainthood'. As far as your question in entirity, I would ask a priest on that one. Cause I'm stumped.
I understand it as.
Arent we (or the church) deciding if someone is worthy of sainthood? Which means we have judged them to be good? As opposed to not good? And what give them that right?

Something like that? [/quote]
The Church has the power to loose and bind and set criteria.
One of the criteria is their holiness, and their writings must be free from all dogmatic error. The paperwork on Mother Teresa covers 85 large volumes and everything she ever wrote.
Another one of the criteria for Sainthood is two miracles. They have to be clear cut, permanent, and completely verifiable by independant docters, and labs.

[nikkan_hanil]

[quote name='willguy' date='Apr 18 2004, 06:10 PM'] Limbo was a place where souls that were destined for heaven went before Christ's death. After His death, which paid the price for their sins, He brought them to heaven... [/quote]
Wait, wait, hold up...
If that's the case, how is Limbo/Sheoul different from purgatory? Also, didn't Jesus go to Limbo after death, and if he did, why? He didn't sin.

[Dave]

[quote name='nikkan_hanil' date='Apr 21 2004, 12:14 PM'] Also, didn't Jesus go to Limbo after death, and if he did, why? He didn't sin. [/quote]
He did it to bring the Gospel to the souls there and bring them into heaven with Him.

[cmotherofpirl]

Hell (infernus) in theological usage is a place of punishment after death. Theologians distinguish four meanings of the term hell:



hell in the strict sense, or the place of punishment for the damned, be they demons or men;

the limbo of infants (limbus parvulorum), where those who die in original sin alone, and without personal mortal sin, are confined and undergo some kind of punishment;

[i]the limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum), in which the souls of the just who died before Christ awaited their admission to heaven; for in the meantime heaven was closed against them in punishment for the sin of Adam; [/i]

purgatory, where the just, who die in venial sin or who still owe a debt of temporal punishment for sin, are cleansed by suffering before their admission to heaven.


Catholic encyclopedia at newadvent.org

[willguy]

One more thing:

Limbus patrem is now closed. It was not a place of purification like Purgatory but was a place where the souls of the just who died before Christ went until He opened the gates of Heaven.

[Apotheoun]

Christ took Adam and Eve into heaven with Him after He triumphed over death in His resurrection.