Need Baptism Help Asap!

[Cherie]

I completely understand your frustration.

Our child will be born any day now, and we only recently (i.e. for less than three months) relocated out of our home state. We are actually currently living on a military base, so I know even moreso what your friend is going through!

Thankfully, my husband's family is very close to their pastor back in Pennsylvania, so when our baby is born we are going to take him asap to Pennsylvania to have him baptized by the priest. Since Msgr. knows us so well, he knows we are very faithful, practicing Catholics, so we are not required to take any Baptismal courses. For that, I am extremely grateful to God.

I understand why churches require baptismal classes or a minimum involvement. Yes, it's to ensure the parents are "really" Catholic and will raise their child in the Faith. Unfortunately, it really doesn't play out that way. Parents take the classes, ok, but they still don't teach their children anything about the faith. It's often like pre-Cana, which is usually pitiful in most dioceses in the United States. Alas, they do try -- but I think in situations like these, it's better to offer a "dispensation" of sorts and baptize the child anyway. This is BAPTISM, people! It's NECESSARY for salvation!!! If a couple wants to get their child baptized in the first place, than I think that's a pretty good sign their heart is in the right place! I would be HORRIFIED if something happened to our baby before he had the chance to be baptized, and I think three months is WAAAAYYY too long to wait for a child to be baptized. Children were often baptized on the DAY they were born. I wish we could do it that way!

If they went to Mass on base, my suggestion is to get a letter from the chaplain there and hand it to the priest of the current parish. The priest would [i]have[/i] to honor it. I honestly think that is their best bet.

Really, baptism is NECESSARY. Oftentimes these tricky requirements and miles of red tape make it seem like it were just some sort of "special ceremony" like so many people of other faiths look at it. If a child were to stop breathing, they'd take him to get medical care immediately. The child is in need of salvation -- therefore they should baptize him as soon as possible!

Just my two cents, anyway. I feel very strongly about it!

[tinytherese]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1285723181' post='2176612']

Really, baptism is NECESSARY. Oftentimes these tricky requirements and miles of red tape make it seem like it were just some sort of "special ceremony" like so many people of other faiths look at it. If a child were to stop breathing, they'd take him to get medical care immediately. The child is in need of salvation -- therefore they should baptize him as soon as possible!

Just my two cents, anyway. I feel very strongly about it!
[/quote]

Ave Maria and Pax Christi.

I can sympathize with what you are saying, but please do keep in mind that if heaven forbid a little one died before Baptism even though the parents intended to do so but didn't in time that the baby would still go to heaven because that would qualify as Baptism of desire which does save.

[MithLuin]

My nephew was baptized at less than one month old while his father was deployed in Afghanistan.

Of course, the child's grandfather is a deacon, so arranging that was not difficult .


If the parents think it is most important that the baptism be on a particular day and would be willing to have the baby baptized Methodist on account of this...then perhaps the local parish was right to request some indication of their intention to raise the child Catholic? Because they don't sound terribly committed at the moment. And yes, I know Lutheran baptism 'counts', but you do realize that you promise to raise the child in the Methodist faith during a Methodist baptism, right?

It looks as though the choices are: have the baby baptized at Ft. Bragg, where the chaplain/priest would know the family, or attend a local parish for three months and then baptize the baby.

I'm a little surprised the father of the baby has so little time at home. I would think he'd get at least a month. Poor guy.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1285726237' post='2176621']
Ave Maria and Pax Christi.

I can sympathize with what you are saying, but please do keep in mind that if heaven forbid a little one died before Baptism even though the parents intended to do so but didn't in time that the baby would still go to heaven because that would qualify as Baptism of desire which does save.
[/quote]

And if there is an emergency, anyone can baptize the baby.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1285728208' post='2176629']
My nephew was baptized at less than one month old while his father was deployed in Afghanistan.

Of course, the child's grandfather is a deacon, so arranging that was not difficult .


If the parents think it is most important that the baptism be on a particular day and would be willing to have the baby baptized Methodist on account of this...then perhaps the local parish was right to request some indication of their intention to raise the child Catholic? Because they don't sound terribly committed at the moment. And yes, I know Lutheran baptism 'counts', but you do realize that you promise to raise the child in the Methodist faith during a Methodist baptism, right?

It looks as though the choices are: have the baby baptized at Ft. Bragg, where the chaplain/priest would know the family, or attend a local parish for three months and then baptize the baby.

I'm a little surprised the father of the baby has so little time at home. I would think he'd get at least a month. Poor guy.
[/quote]

Yes, that was my point in mentioning that the wait tries to ensure that the parents are actually practicing Catholics. We promise to raise our children as Catholics, and, personally, I'm just not comfortable with lying to God. I'd rather wait and Baptize Catholic after a couple months than Baptize Methodist or Lutheran and be a liar.

I don't know how it works with contractors, but soldiers get 14 days of leave. The only way to get an extension on that is if there is an emergency (and great aunt Susie getting sick doesn't count). The reason why they limit it is because each battalion has about a 6 month window (because, for various reasons, on a 12 month deployment, they do not send anyone home--except for emergencies--for the first and last 3 months) to get anywhere from 300 to 1,200 troops home for their leave time (in my experience it's usually between 300-500, but google says it can be as high as 1,200). During that time they have to maintain a certain percentage of their troops so only a certain number can be sent home at once. The shorter amount of time ensures that everyone gets their chance to go home and see their loved ones.

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1285728323' post='2176631']
And if there is an emergency, anyone can baptize the baby.
[/quote]

I always gave my babies a conditional Baptism in case something happened to them before we got the official Baptism done.

[Micah]

Get them to carry some holy water on them. I may be going against the grain here but I'd be ready to baptize that baby myself at the drop of a hat... If I had my way, babies would get dunked in the hospital room. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif[/img]

[Cherie]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1285726237' post='2176621']
Ave Maria and Pax Christi.

I can sympathize with what you are saying, but please do keep in mind that if heaven forbid a little one died before Baptism even though the parents intended to do so but didn't in time that the baby would still go to heaven because that would qualify as Baptism of desire which does save.
[/quote]

Of course, (I do appreciate you bringing that up, I should have mentioned that in my post) and if there were an emergency, we would baptize the baby ourselves. In fact, my husband really wants to do it himself in the hospital -- lol -- but I had to convince him that I really think we should wait for Msgr unless there's a problem!

Edited September 29, 2010 by CherieMadame

[Cherie]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1285735390' post='2176650']
If I had my way, babies would get dunked in the hospital room. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Honestly, I agree! I think there should be a priest on call at every hospital for this very purpose!

[StMichael]

I can't, nor will, judge the parents. They are both Catholics. This is their only child.

I'm astonished that this innocent child can be denied a Catholic baptism that quite frankly is deplorable to put any barriers around it.

Out of desperation to have the child baptized, non-Catholics are suggesting baptism via a Methodist or Lutheran ceremony. Apparently they are far more willing to follow what Jesus taught as opposed to our own Church.

Our Faith is pure, but in far too many instances, it has become so institutionalized that we are destroying ourselves.

Even if the parents were fallen away Catholics, the fact that they would want to give the child the gift of Faith is far more important than having to jump through hoops because a person, other than the Holy Spirit, has decided this is so.

I see this happening constantly in our Church. Not just in this instance. Then we wonder why we see the flock thinning out.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1285773973' post='2176730']
I can't, nor will, judge the parents. They are both Catholics. This is their only child.

I'm astonished that this innocent child can be denied a Catholic baptism that quite frankly is deplorable to put any barriers around it.

Out of desperation to have the child baptized, non-Catholics are suggesting baptism via a Methodist or Lutheran ceremony. Apparently they are far more willing to follow what Jesus taught as opposed to our own Church.

Our Faith is pure, but in far too many instances, it has become so institutionalized that we are destroying ourselves.

Even if the parents were fallen away Catholics, the fact that they would want to give the child the gift of Faith is far more important than having to jump through hoops because a person, other than the Holy Spirit, has decided this is so.

I see this happening constantly in our Church. Not just in this instance. Then we wonder why we see the flock thinning out.
[/quote]

Please. No one said that they could never get their kid Baptized. Sooner is better than later, but later is better than never. They had NINE months to plan for this. It's the parents own fault for not trying to get this sorted out earlier! I know because I've been in their shoes.

And why would anyone promise God that they'd raise their child a religion that they won't? It'd be a lie. A fallen away Catholic has no intention of raising their child in the Faith anymore than a Catholic intends to raise their child Lutheran.

[StMichael]

No, what I am saying is that barriers created by a local parish has unintended consequences. It is obvious their life has not been able to be organized as might be the case for you or I, but to blame the parents for not getting it scheduled doesn't exactly sound like something Our Father would agree with.

The focus here is on the parents, when it should be in the child.

Denying the child a Catholic baptism, because they can't fit in, etc. is simply wrong and against what the Church stands for.

I see and hear far too many stories of Catholics needing to see a Priest, got to get it scheduled, and then when they do see the Priest, they are not fed.

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1285774317' post='2176732']
Please. No one said that they could never get their kid Baptized. Sooner is better than later, but later is better than never. They had NINE months to plan for this. It's the parents own fault for not trying to get this sorted out earlier! I know because I've been in their shoes.

And why would anyone promise God that they'd raise their child a religion that they won't? It'd be a lie. A fallen away Catholic has no intention of raising their child in the Faith anymore than a Catholic intends to raise their child Lutheran.
[/quote]

[Cherie]

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1285776519' post='2176743']
No, what I am saying is that barriers created by a local parish has unintended consequences. It is obvious their life has not been able to be organized as might be the case for you or I, but to blame the parents for not getting it scheduled doesn't exactly sound like something Our Father would agree with.

The focus here is on the parents, when it should be in the child.

Denying the child a Catholic baptism, because they can't fit in, etc. is simply wrong and against what the Church stands for.

I see and hear far too many stories of Catholics needing to see a Priest, got to get it scheduled, and then when they do see the Priest, they are not fed.


[/quote]

Like I said before, I completely understand your frustration!!! Life is full of many unusual circumstances and situations, and oftentimes certain "requirements" can be more of a barrier than a help. But try to think of it like the "seat belt" debate. Is it safer to wear a seat belt? Of course! Are there instances in which a seat belt can actually contribute to a person's death in a car accident? Yes, but it's very rare, and the benefits of wearing a seat belt definitely outweigh any kind of benefit of [i]not[/i] wearing one. The parish's requirements are kind of like a spiritual "seat belt" -- Catholics understand baptism MUCH more deeply than those of other Christian denominations; and while yes, their baptisms are valid ("one baptism") we Catholics have an understanding and a commitment that other faiths don't. It's important for parents to realize that baptizing their child is [i]so[/i] much more than just a "religious ceremony," and these requirements are set up in order to teach parents that. They have good intentions; they're trying to ensure the eternal salvation of the parents [i]and[/i] their child. Are the baptismal classes a joke sometimes? Unfortunately, yes. But just as there had to be the Cross before the Resurrection, oftentimes God allows us to go through hardships--even in our own parishes--before He will bring about the good He inevitably desires to bring about.

It is an unfortunate situation, but I definitely would not encourage them to get their child baptized in a church of a different faith.

Have they tried to get a letter from the chaplain at Ft. Braggs? If they can't, or they did and it didn't help, then I would encourage them to wait the three months' time. God has allowed this to happen, and perhaps they could offer up the pain and frustration of waiting for the eternal salvation of their precious little one? Believe me, I know it's frustrating. But remember Romans 8:28 -- God will bring about good from this situation, and in the end, their precious baby [i]will[/i] be baptized. And, like someone else mentioned, if something were to happen to their child, he/she would certainly have baptism of desire and they'd have a little Saint in Heaven.

[Archaeology cat]

Well said, Cherie. While it's frustrating, I do understand the position of the parish, since I often saw people showing up at my old parish to have their child baptised, and they'd have a big party, and not show up again until First Communion. One of the priests who oversaw me as I was converting said he had turned away parents before because they only saw it as a ceremony, a rite of passage, but didn't believe it, didn't live out their faith, and had no intention to raise the child Catholic. Since the parents promise to raise the child Catholic at the baptism, this saved the parents from lying to God. So I can understand why a priest would have these requirements in place, because he doesn't know the parents. I pray they are able to get everything sorted soon. I think Cherie's & Icey's advice about trying to contact the old parish &, failing that, to wait it out, is good, too.

Actually, there's no guarantee of getting to schedule a baptism earlier than 3 months anyway, depending on the parish. My son was 2 months old when baptised, because he was born just before Advent, and our priest requested that we not schedule the baptism until after Epiphany, as he was too busy. My daughter was 3 weeks old, because the deacon at our new parish was able to schedule it sooner for us.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1285773973' post='2176730']
I can't, nor will, judge the parents. They are both Catholics. This is their only child.

I'm astonished that this innocent child can be denied a Catholic baptism that quite frankly is deplorable to put any barriers around it.

Out of desperation to have the child baptized, non-Catholics are suggesting baptism via a Methodist or Lutheran ceremony. Apparently they are far more willing to follow what Jesus taught as opposed to our own Church.

Our Faith is pure, but in far too many instances, it has become so institutionalized that we are destroying ourselves.

Even if the parents were fallen away Catholics, the fact that they would want to give the child the gift of Faith is far more important than having to jump through hoops because a person, other than the Holy Spirit, has decided this is so.

I see this happening constantly in our Church. Not just in this instance. Then we wonder why we see the flock thinning out.
[/quote]
You won't judge the parents, but you'll judge the priest/church/diocese/whoever has put these rules in place? That seems fair.

[Lil Red]

i was made fun of for scheduling all of our babies baptisms before they were even born.