Is The Bible Reliable?

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1287806901' post='2181702']There are many Rites of the Catholic Church, Rome being one of them.[/quote]No...

There is the Latin Rite, sometimes referred to as the "roman rite", but its technically and legally "[i]Latin Rite[/i]".

When someone says "[i]Roman Catholic[/i]" or "[i]Roman Catholic Church[/i]" its referring that the person or group is in union with the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

But the term is so frequently misused and misunderstood... its not surprising some people are resistant to the term "[i]Roman[/i]".

[KnightofChrist]

Yes.

The Roman Catholic Church is a [i]Sui Juris[/i] Church of the Holy Catholic Church. Just as the Byzantine Church is a [i]Sui Juris[/i] Church of the Holy Catholic Church. So to the Antiochain Church, and the other [i]Sui Juris[/i] Churches of the Holy Catholic Church.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote][b][url="http://www.baltimore-catechism.com/lesson11.htm"]Baltimore Catechism #3[/url][/b] - Lesson 11 (On the Church)
Q. 500. Why are Catholics called "Roman"?

A. Catholics are called Roman to show that they are in union with the true Church founded by Christ and governed by the Apostles under the direction of St. Peter, by divine appointment the Chief of the Apostles, who founded the Church of Rome and was its first bishop.[/quote][quote][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Rite"][b]Latin Rite[/b][/url] - Relationship with the term "Roman Catholic"
Certain Catholic and non-Catholic sources use the term "Roman Catholic" to mean "Latin-Rite Catholic", and the Holy See was known in the eighteenth century to use "Roman Church" to refer to the Latin Church, and "Greek Church" to refer to what was then considered a single Oriental Church that included not only Byzantine but also Armenian, Coptic and Syrian Catholics. The 1755 papal encyclical Allatae Sunt said: "The Oriental Church is composed of four rites - Greek, Armenian, Syriac, and Coptic; all these rites are referred to by the single name of the Greek or Oriental Church, just as the name of the Latin or Roman Church signifies the Roman, Ambrosian, and Mozarabic rites, as well as the special rites of different Regular Orders". However, "Roman Catholic" was also used at the same time, as well as much earlier, to refer to the whole Church in communion with the Bishop of Rome. "The terms 'Roman Church' and 'Roman Catholic Church' date from at least the early Middle Ages, but the stress on these terms became prominent after the Protestant Reformation. The reason was to emphasize the distinctive quality of being not only a Christian, because baptized, but of being a Catholic, because in communion with the Pope."

[b][u]In times more recent than that mid-eighteenth century document, "Roman Catholic" is not used in the Church's official documents to mean "Latin Rite". On the contrary, Church documents use the term "Roman Catholic Church" to refer to the worldwide Church as a whole[/u][/b], though by no means as frequently as the term "Catholic Church". This usage is found in the encyclicals Divini illius Magistri and Humani generis and in curial documents such as Notes on the correct way to present the Jews and Judaism in preaching and catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church. It is commonly used in agreements signed by the Pope together with the heads of other Churches.[/quote]Your using the term inappropriately.

Its the Code of Canon Law for the Latin Rite ([s]not Roman Rite[/s])...

[HisChildForever]

[quote]
The expression "Church of Rome", it should be noted, though commonly applied by non-Catholics to the whole Catholic body, can only be used correctly in this secondary sense for the local diocese (or possibly the province) of Rome, mother and mistress of all Churches. A German Catholic is not, strictly speaking, a member of the Church of Rome but of the Church of Cologne, or Munich-Freising, or whatever it may be, in union with and under the obedience of the Roman Church (although, no doubt, by a further extension Roman Church may be used as equivalent to Latin Church for the patriarchate).

The word is also used very commonly for the still greater portions that are united under their patriarchs, that is for the patriarchates. It is in this sense that we speak of the Latin Church. The Latin Church is simply that vast portion of the Catholic body which obeys the Latin patriarch, which submits to the pope, not only in papal, but also in patriarchal matters. It is thus distinguished from the Eastern Churches (whether Catholic or Schismatic), which represent the other four patriarchates (Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem), and any fractions broken away from them.
[/quote]

[quote]The Eastern Churches, small as they are, still represent the old Catholic Christendom of the East in union with the pope, obeying him as pope, though not as their patriarch. All Latins are Catholics, but not all Catholics are Latins.[/quote]

[quote]As part of the Latin Church England must submit to Latin canon law and the Roman Rite just as much as France or Germany. The comparison with Eastern Rite Catholics rests on a misconception of the whole situation. It follows also that the expression Latin (or even Roman) Catholic is quite justifiable, inasmuch as we express by it that we are not only Catholics but also members of the Latin or Roman patriarchate.[/quote]

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09022a.htm"]Link[/url]

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Mr Cat' timestamp='1287809530' post='2181714']
Its the Code of Canon Law for the Latin [s]Rite[/s] Church
[/quote]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2.HTM"]Can. 1 The canons of this Code regard only the Latin Church.[/url]

[Mr.Cat]

[quote][url="http://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/Symbola/Tridentinae.html"][b]Creed of Pope Pius IV[/b][/url]
"I acknowledge the Holy Catholic Apostolic [u]Roman[/u] Church as the mother and teacher of all churches; and I promise true obedience to the Bishop of Rome, successor to St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and Vicar of Jesus Christ."[/quote]This creed is binding upon the faithful, was reaffirmed at the Council of Trent and the First Vatican Council. If you don't accept this then quite frankly, your not in good standing with the Church doctrinally.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Mr Cat

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1287810676' post='2181717'][url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2.HTM"]Can. 1 The canons of this Code regard only the Latin Church.[/url][/quote]So? This shows we are apart of the Latin Rite of the Church because this is the Latin Rite's Code of Canon Law, which subsequently includes the Latin-Sub-rites.

When we refer to the "[i]Roman Catholic Church[/i]" or "[i]Roman Catholics[/i]", that is more than just the Latin Rite.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Mr Cat

[KnightofChrist]

Roman and Latin are interchangeable. The CCC which is more authoritative than the Baltimore Catechism and certainly Wikipedia, uses Roman Rite and Latin Rite interchangeably.

Roman Catholic Church, or The Church of Rome is one of the Sees, or [i]Sui Juris[/i] Churches, it has it's own Rite, as do the other [i]Sui Juris[/i] Churches of the One Holy Catholic Church.

Edited October 23, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='Mr Cat' timestamp='1287807603' post='2181706']No...

[b][color="#8B0000"]There is the Latin Rite, sometimes referred to as the "roman rite", but its technically and legally "[i]Latin Rite[/i]".[/color][/b]

When someone says "[i]Roman Catholic[/i]" or "[i]Roman Catholic Church[/i]" its referring that the person or group is in union with the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

But the term is so frequently misused and misunderstood... its not surprising some people are resistant to the term "[i]Roman[/i]".[/quote][quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287808468' post='2181707']Yes.

[b]The Roman Catholic Church is a [i]Sui Juris[/i] Church of the Holy Catholic Church[/b]. Just as the Byzantine Church is a [i]Sui Juris[/i] Church of the Holy Catholic Church. So to the Antiochain Church, and the other [i]Sui Juris[/i] Churches of the Holy Catholic Church.[/quote][quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287811271' post='2181721'][color="#8B0000"][b]Roman and Latin are interchangeable.[/b][/color] The CCC which is more authoritative than the Baltimore Catechism and certainly Wikipedia, uses Roman Rite and Latin Rite interchangeably.

Roman Catholic Church, or The Church of Rome is a one of the Sees, or [i]Sui Juris[/i] Churches, it has it's own Rite, as do the other [i]Sui Juris[/i] Churches of the One Holy Catholic Church[/quote]Umm... It sounds like your trying your HARDEST to disagree...

If you don't confess that all Catholics belong to the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church, you are NOT in good standing with the Church...

Edited October 23, 2010 by Mr Cat

[HisChildForever]

Eastern Catholics are in full communion with Rome but identify themselves as, for example, "Melkite Catholic" - not "Melkite Roman Catholic". If "Roman" in "Roman Catholic" does NOT stand for a Rite, then Melkite Catholics would refer to themselves as "Melkite Roman Catholic".

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1287811966' post='2181725']Eastern Catholics are in full communion with Rome but identify themselves as, for example, "Melkite Catholic" - not "Melkite Roman Catholic". If "Roman" in "Roman Catholic" does NOT stand for a Rite, then Melkite Catholics would refer to themselves as "Melkite Roman Catholic".[/quote]IF they[b] don't accept[/b] the definitions of two Ecumenical Councils binding upon the faithful, they don't qualify them to Catholic and in union with the Bishop of Rome....

Edited October 23, 2010 by Mr Cat

[HisChildForever]

They are Catholics. The [url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-encourages-eastern-catholics-to-maintain-traditions/"]Pope[/url] encourages their traditions and recognizes their union to Rome.

[quote]
“In maintaining Catholic communion,” he stated, “the Eastern Catholic Churches had no intention of renouncing faithfulness to their own tradition. As has been noted on several occasions, the union they have already achieved with the Church of Rome must not cause the Eastern Catholic Churches to lose an awareness of their own authenticity and originality.”

“Therefore,” the Holy Father continued, “the task of all the Eastern Catholic Churches is that of preserving their legal heritage and nourishing their traditions, which are a treasure for the whole Church.”
[/quote]

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1287812441' post='2181728']They are Catholics. The [url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-encourages-eastern-catholics-to-maintain-traditions/"]Pope[/url] encourages their traditions and recognizes their union to Rome.[/quote]Yeah, because their not Latin Rite Catholics...

[KnightofChrist]

The term "Roman Catholic Church" is an oxymoron, a contradiction of terms, if one truly applies it to the whole Church. Rome a city is a certain place, and a fixed location. Catholic meaning Universal is all places and locations, in all times. Using the term "Roman Catholic Church" for the whole Catholic Church is improper. The Catholic Church transcends Rome, tomorrow it could not exist, but the Church will always exist.

The term "Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church", in the Creed of Pius IV, is not meant to be an official name of the Church, at least not in the manner Cat is arguing. It is rather a response to the Protestant rebellion (as was the Council of Trent). The term is meant to imply there is only one Church and the Church of Rome is the Primatial See of the Church, with the Pope as its head. Not that the whole Church is "Roman", the whole Church is clearly not. The Church is Universal.

This is also interesting: [url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb3.htm"]How did the Catholic Church get her name?[/url]

Edited October 23, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1287815107' post='2181735']The term "Roman Catholic Church" is an oxymoron, a contradiction of terms, if one truly applies it to the whole Church. Rome a city is a certain place, and a fixed location. Catholic meaning Universal is all places and locations, in all times. Using the term "Roman Catholic Church" for the whole Catholic Church is improper. The Catholic Church transcends Rome, tomorrow it could not exist, but the Church will always exist.

The term "Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church", in the Creed of Pius IV, is not meant to be an official name of the Church, at least not in the manner Cat is arguing. It is rather a response to the Protestant rebellion (as was the Council of Trent). The term is meant to imply there is only one Church and the Church of Rome is the Primatial See of the Church, with the Pope as its head. Not that the whole Church is "Roman", the whole Church is clearly not. The Church is Universal.

This is also interesting: [url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb3.htm"]How did the Catholic Church get her name?[/url][/quote]There is no OFFICIAL NAME for the Church. That is one definition for the word "[i]catholic[/i]", but I will agree that it's more of a Catholic focused definition.

But it changes nothing. Unless they admit this creed, reaffirmed by two councils, that they belong to the "[i]Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church[/i]"... they are not in good standing or union with the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

As I admitted, the term is frequently misused and misunderstood. Also that we are the Latin Rite ([i]sometimes called the roman rite, though infrequent and a bit inappropriate[/i]). KnightofChrist, again you just thumb your nose at the Church when it's convenient for you. I'm starting to think you need a phisy tag. LOOK how the creed starts:[quote][b][url="http://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/Symbola/Tridentinae.html"]Creed of Pope Pius IV[/url][/b]
I, N, with a firm faith believe and profess each and everything which is contained in the Creed which the [u]Holy Roman Church[/u] maketh use of. To wit: [/quote]The whole of the Catholic Church is Roman, in as much as its subject and in union with the Bishop of Rome, because the Bishop of Rome is the successor and vicar of Saint Peter the Apostle.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Mr Cat