The Chastity Thread

[Micah]

[quote name='Rosie T' timestamp='1285710156' post='2176554']
Chastity??? UGH!!!!!!!!!!! I feel like screaming [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/brickwall.gif[/img] It's NOT easy that's for SURE!!!! I feel like I'm going crazy cuz I have all these..."desires"..............[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cry2.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Ya we were discussing this in the chatroom last night. Bleh [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sad2.gif[/img]

[Sarah147]

[quote name='yoda' timestamp='1286521545' post='2178508']
Its hard to find someone that agrees with chastity. Its true everything is focused around that these days but I still somewhat believe that if you are married there should be no problem. If you love someone that much and you are not doing it with anyone but them then you should be able to share that special moment more times then just when you are planning to concieve
[/quote]


True, though, marriage isn't an excuse to do whatever you want. There are sexual acts that are sinful that you cannot do any time. And even in marriage, you can't just "give in" to your every urge. There has to be chastity in every state in life. And periods of abstinence in marriage as part of chastity, self-control, sacrifice, etc. You've got to have pure thoughts, dress, words, intentions, etc. Underneath your lovemaking needs to be the desire to express and receive love, not just urge satisfaction. You can't "use" each other.

[yoda]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1286581705' post='2178656']
True, though, marriage isn't an excuse to do whatever you want. There are sexual acts that are sinful that you cannot do any time. And even in marriage, you can't just "give in" to your every urge. There has to be chastity in every state in life. And periods of abstinence in marriage as part of chastity, self-control, sacrifice, etc. You've got to have pure thoughts, dress, words, intentions, etc. Underneath your lovemaking needs to be the desire to express and receive love, not just urge satisfaction. You can't "use" each other.
[/quote]

I do agree with what you are saying, I was just speaking in that sense. I dont think a marriage should be based around sex and doing whatever you want. I know you have to sometimes make sacrifices for the ones you love to show them. I just think that when you are married you have the right to do it more often.

[Sarah147]

I just reread your previous post. It is okay to have relations with your spouse without the purpose of conceiving. You just need to always be open to the possibility if God so wills it, and NFP allows that, without being a contreceptive barrier that says NO to God. I would find it tricky to avoid using NFP with a contreceptive mentality, which can happen. I have heard that NFP gets the couple to talk and pray about their decision each month. It always keeps their mind and hearts open in the process of following the woman's cycle of fertility.

Edited October 9, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[missionseeker]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1285055885' post='2175037']
I recently read this really neat booklet called [i]Clean Love in Courtship[/i]. I was planning to buy it from TAN books until I discovered that it was available for free online. It has some wonderful guidelines to use when trying to remain chaste before marriage. I learned a great deal and I think it will come in handy while I'm discerning married life.
[/quote]


"Such actions as holding one another’s hands, sitting on one another’s lap, kissing freely, caressing, fondling, ,embracing, and other familiarities are very dangerous."

That sentence is the problem I have with that book. Sure, most of those are "dangerous", but I have no idea why some people would consider holding hands and hugging dangerous (or "common" and "vulgar" as she also calls them.

[yoda]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1286585382' post='2178680']
"Such actions as holding one another's hands, sitting on one another's lap, kissing freely, caressing, fondling, ,embracing, and other familiarities are very dangerous."

That sentence is the problem I have with that book. Sure, most of those are "dangerous", but I have no idea why some people would consider holding hands and hugging dangerous (or "common" and "vulgar" as she also calls them.


[/quote]

I agree with you. I understand the caressing and fondling, and i guess a few other things if we are speaking about PDA. But I know that when Im in love i will want to be kissed and held. I like affection, I want to feel the love. Actions speak louder then words!

[tinytherese]

At my Catholic high school I had some aquaintances who merely held hands and got an in school suspension day. I thought that that was messed up. Who is honestly scandalized by a couple doing that, apart from the Puritans who lived centuries ago?


I've never been in a romantic relationship before (just a bunch of years of either being single or discerning the religious life,) and one thing that concerns me is the kissing issue. Chaste kisses are just fine but how do we do them? It seems like everybody is all into long steamy passionate desperate kisses or just flat out making out. How long is too long of a kiss. I just have this image of a loud alarm going off after three seconds or so or me spending the brief time kissing mentally keeping track of time and then breaking away while I miss out on the innocent enjoyment of the kiss.

[TeresaBenedicta]

This may seem backwards, but...

I've never [i]really[/i] struggled with chastity. In fact, my struggle has been something of the opposite. As silly as it may sound, I've often struggled [i]because[/i] I don't struggle as much with chastity as other people do. So I've been tempted to 'explore' in those areas precisely because I haven't necessarily felt tempted in those areas, if that makes any sense. And I've struggled with coming to understand myself as a sexual being when I don't [i]feel[/i] sexual temptations in the same way that it seems other people do. Choosing to explore in those areas out of curiosity and not necessarily out of physical temptations.

Now, my struggle with chastity is less about all of that, but more about chastity of the heart and allowing my desires for human relationships and intimacy to be first and foremost fulfilled in the Lord Jesus. Allowing my human relationships to flow out of my love for God. And being comfortable enough to be an example to my friends who [i]do[/i] struggle with chastity issues. Letting them see my desires fulfilled in the love of God. Letting them see the freedom I have. It can be difficult sometimes... again, as silly as it is, sometimes sin is more attractive or influential.

Tonight I had a long conversation with a friend of mine about chastity. She's done some things and disagrees with the Church about certain things and continues to do some things. I was glad she felt comfortable enough with me to talk about these things, even though she knew where I "stand", so to say. But, after our conversation, I was surprised to once again be hit with the temptation of curiosity. Some of the things she talked about are desires I've never experienced... but, in some ways, would like to. And so there is the temptation to go and seek that.

I don't know if any of that makes sense. I've never really tried to articulate it before... it's something I'm a bit insecure about, because sometimes it just makes me feel like I'm "missing" something about being human. And I don't know if there's something "wrong" with me or if it's just an awesome grace from God allowing me to live the life I believe He has called me to.

[Elijah]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1286614088' post='2178742']
This may seem backwards, but...

I've never [i]really[/i] struggled with chastity. In fact, my struggle has been something of the opposite. As silly as it may sound, I've often struggled [i]because[/i] I don't struggle as much with chastity as other people do. So I've been tempted to 'explore' in those areas precisely because I haven't necessarily felt tempted in those areas, if that makes any sense. And I've struggled with coming to understand myself as a sexual being when I don't [i]feel[/i] sexual temptations in the same way that it seems other people do. Choosing to explore in those areas out of curiosity and not necessarily out of physical temptations.

Now, my struggle with chastity is less about all of that, but more about chastity of the heart and allowing my desires for human relationships and intimacy to be first and foremost fulfilled in the Lord Jesus. Allowing my human relationships to flow out of my love for God. And being comfortable enough to be an example to my friends who [i]do[/i] struggle with chastity issues. Letting them see my desires fulfilled in the love of God. Letting them see the freedom I have. It can be difficult sometimes... again, as silly as it is, sometimes sin is more attractive or influential.

Tonight I had a long conversation with a friend of mine about chastity. She's done some things and disagrees with the Church about certain things and continues to do some things. I was glad she felt comfortable enough with me to talk about these things, even though she knew where I "stand", so to say. But, after our conversation, I was surprised to once again be hit with the temptation of curiosity. Some of the things she talked about are desires I've never experienced... but, in some ways, would like to. And so there is the temptation to go and seek that.

I don't know if any of that makes sense. I've never really tried to articulate it before... it's something I'm a bit insecure about, because sometimes it just makes me feel like I'm "missing" something about being human. And I don't know if there's something "wrong" with me or if it's just an awesome grace from God allowing me to live the life I believe He has called me to.
[/quote]

St. Therese of the Child Jesus didn't feel any temptation towards chastity either. I would think that this is more of a grace from God rather than abnormality. Believe me, you don't want to be tempted with such ugly and grave sins. You're better off where you are.

[MithLuin]

The way I look at it is that married couples may have sex as often as they like. They must also be responsible about raising the children that result from that decision.

But the reality of marriage is that there will be times when you have to abstain. Even [i]long[/i] times. Sometimes, one person will have a long term health issue, such that sex isn't really an option. Other times, the couple will be separated by work. Working in another city makes it difficult! Military deployment happens.

Etc.

The important thing is that both members of the couple agree to the time apart, and accept the limitations they have to deal with. Sure, it's very difficult. But...

It would also not be a sign of a healthy relationship if a married couple were avoiding marital relations for frivolous reasons. 'I don't feel well' shouldn't be the norm, or ignoring an 'I'm going to bed now...' to watch TV or play video games until your spouse is asleep.

People have different libidos; that's just life. Being a slave to sin is no fun, but I imagine that giving into innocent curiosity could easily lead to real struggles with temptation. It might not seem to be any danger to you [i]at first[/i], but....

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1286614088' post='2178742']
This may seem backwards, but...

I've never [i]really[/i] struggled with chastity. In fact, my struggle has been something of the opposite. As silly as it may sound, I've often struggled [i]because[/i] I don't struggle as much with chastity as other people do. So I've been tempted to 'explore' in those areas precisely because I haven't necessarily felt tempted in those areas, if that makes any sense. And I've struggled with coming to understand myself as a sexual being when I don't [i]feel[/i] sexual temptations in the same way that it seems other people do. Choosing to explore in those areas out of curiosity and not necessarily out of physical temptations.

Now, my struggle with chastity is less about all of that, but more about chastity of the heart and allowing my desires for human relationships and intimacy to be first and foremost fulfilled in the Lord Jesus. Allowing my human relationships to flow out of my love for God. And being comfortable enough to be an example to my friends who [i]do[/i] struggle with chastity issues. Letting them see my desires fulfilled in the love of God. Letting them see the freedom I have. It can be difficult sometimes... again, as silly as it is, sometimes sin is more attractive or influential.

Tonight I had a long conversation with a friend of mine about chastity. She's done some things and disagrees with the Church about certain things and continues to do some things. I was glad she felt comfortable enough with me to talk about these things, even though she knew where I "stand", so to say. But, after our conversation, I was surprised to once again be hit with the temptation of curiosity. Some of the things she talked about are desires I've never experienced... but, in some ways, would like to. And so there is the temptation to go and seek that.

I don't know if any of that makes sense. I've never really tried to articulate it before... it's something I'm a bit insecure about, because sometimes it just makes me feel like I'm "missing" something about being human. And I don't know if there's something "wrong" with me or if it's just an awesome grace from God allowing me to live the life I believe He has called me to.
[/quote]


Curiosity for sin IS a temptation to chastity.... be very careful. Just because you think you aren't tempted against chastity doesn't mean that the devil isn't working on you subtly in other ways that will lead to the same outcome. The desires that you've never experienced sound like ones that could be occasions for sin, so even thinking about them is dangerous. You are not inhuman not to feel a desire for these things, but you could start to feel a sense of pride about it if you dwell on it too much.

Just my two cents here but I would recommend ...

1) stop letting your friend talk to you about unchaste things that lead to curiosity about sin
and
2) stop dwelling on your own lack of desire except to give thanks to God for His mercy in this matter

Focus on staying chaste in thoughts as well as deeds. Prayers for you and for your friend who sounds like she needs them.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1286660133' post='2178808']
Curiosity for sin IS a temptation to chastity.... be very careful. Just because you think you aren't tempted against chastity doesn't mean that the devil isn't working on you subtly in other ways that will lead to the same outcome. The desires that you've never experienced sound like ones that could be occasions for sin, so even thinking about them is dangerous. You are not inhuman not to feel a desire for these things, but you could start to feel a sense of pride about it if you dwell on it too much.

Just my two cents here but I would recommend ...

1) stop letting your friend talk to you about unchaste things that lead to curiosity about sin
and
2) stop dwelling on your own lack of desire except to give thanks to God for His mercy in this matter

Focus on staying chaste in thoughts as well as deeds. Prayers for you and for your friend who sounds like she needs them.
[/quote]

You're definitely spot on.

All of this isn't as prevalent now for me as it once was-- but definitely interesting that I saw this thread after having had that conversation with my friend, which is what got me thinking about it to begin with. For the most part, by God's grace, even the temptations of curiosity have been dormant lately. Not to say they can't pop back up with occasions like the conversation I had with my friend last night.

Thanks for the prayers.

[ameliabedelia]

i recently became a member of the angelic warfare confraternity : [url="http://www.angelicwarfare.org/"]http://www.angelicwarfare.org/[/url]

each day you are encouraged to say these prayer and 15 hail Marys.
[font=Arial][b]
[/b][/font]
[font=Arial][b]The Prayer to St. Thomas for Purity[/b]
Chosen lily of innocence, pure St. Thomas,
who kept chaste the robe of baptism
and became an angel in the flesh after being girded by two angels,
I implore you to commend me to Jesus, the Spotless Lamb,
and to Mary, the Queen of Virgins.
Gentle protector of my purity, ask them that I,
who wear the holy sign of your victory over the flesh,
may also share your purity,
and after imitating you on earth
may at last come to be crowned with you among the angels. Amen.

[b]The Prayer of St. Thomas for Purity[/b]
(St. Thomas wrote this one)
Dear Jesus,
I know that every perfect gift,
and especially that of chastity,
depends on the power of Your providence.
Without You a mere creature can do nothing.
Therefore, I beg You to defend by Your grace
the chastity and purity of my body and soul.
And if I have ever sensed or imagined anything
that could stain my chastity and purity,
blot it out, Supreme Lord of my powers,
that I may advance with a pure heart in Your love and service,
offering myself on the most pure altar of Your divinity
all the days of my life. Amen.[/font]

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

My tip: In temptation I think of the wonderful girls I know, and what a shame it would be to let one of them down.

[Micah]

[quote name='thedude' timestamp='1288920133' post='2184966']
My tip: In temptation I think of the wonderful girls I know, and what a shame it would be to let one of them down.
[/quote]

Chaste girls, where!? Spread the wealth brother.