Ready To Die - An Essay About Society's Fear Of Death

[Chi Zhuzi]

[quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1285002496' post='2174891']
Maybe just some points of clairification.

This last bit sounded very reasonable and realistic to me.

Here is something I still have an issue with:

You make it seem like we should sit, watch, and pray for those who were being oppressed and tell them "hey don't worry - you're about to be a maytr". Do we stand and watch as the kid is being beaten by 10 gang members?

Now, if we decide to put love in action, say go help the kid. Now its 2 on 10 - have you really done anything other than put yourself at risk, and yes you've become a marytr as well.

What if you called the "police" - the instution of violence. They arrest the 10 men, you're unharmed, the 1 kid is ok (presumably with a few bruises) and perhaps you've stopped the gang from further violence.

What is your take on this hypo?
[/quote]

I may be wrong, but I think Era was speaking more about approaching people, the gang member in this case, in a personal way I'm not suggesting he was excluding your scenario. And I'm not sure it's wise for every single Christian to intervene directly in occasions like your hypothetical situation. If they don't have the mental constitution, the physical endurance, or they don't quite understand who and what they are getting themselves involved with, they ought stay out of it. They may end up severely harmed. The situation might escalate with their mouth.

And it's not young boys - as much if not more often its a pack of girls. The situation might be young men in their mid 20's, and if that is the case someone is likely to be seriously hurt.

But I've been on the bus, on my way to the boxing gym, when 3 teen girls cursing loudly, were asked to be quite by an older woman in her 50's. The 3 girls and the 20'ish year old - very pregnant - woman with the girls, began verbally assaulting and threatening the woman. Not I, not a man, not the bus driver, not no one said a word or got involved. The price of getting involved, opening your mouth, can be steep. I understood the animals I was around. We travel the same terrain. I pick up the same scents they do. Now, if I got involved that would have been my choice and that would have been fine, because I know the consequences, or potential consequences. Some nit wit Christian that simply thinks they are doing a good deed and all shall be fine the next day or so they wait on or ride the bus, ought stay out of it, especially if they have kids. Kind of hard to take care of your kids when you can no longer move your legs and need to live the rest of your life in a wheelchair.

Cops might take to long too. Better tell them someone has a gun. My parents live a block away from a police station, it took the cops over an hour to respond to their call about a break-in next door. Cops are too busy chasing, arresting, and questioning other people to respond to every call with lightening speed.

But what I think Era was talking about, was merely risking one's life, or at least facing and moving through their fears, real or perceived, and simply addressing that 27 year old gang member like you have "Christ in your heart" and he is a person like any judge or lawyer you'd chat with. That doesn't even require asking the cat about Jesus, God, or quoting scripture.

I think Era's point was, why come to him in prison? Why wait until then?

I'm not going to say I defend Era's position (though I think he's dead on about the lukewarm thing vs the radical commitment of the hardcore gang member [not so-so gang member]).

Most gangs - the so-called "supergangs" - are run by people in their mid 20's, 30's, and even 50's.

Every time an indictment comes down in Milwaukee on a gang, 98% of the people named, with their ages, are in their 20's and 30's. It's rare to see anyone listed as 14 or 17.

The gang violence in Brazil is ferocious. They're structured in a more militia culture than the GD's of the United States that were modeled after Japanese corporate structures - with former King Hoover (Larry Hoover) formerly presiding as the chairman of the board (he was indicted on building the Chicago GD's, while sitting in prison, into a $100 million empire). I would state some of the violent acts that go on in Brazilian favelas by their gangs, but it's too violent tom list mention on here. One can get a glimpse by looking at the movie [i]Troopa de Elite[/i] and released on DVD in the U.S. as [i]Elite Squad[/i]. It was co-written originally as a book, by a Brazilian sociologist, and a former member of the world renown BOPA. The Rio "SWAT" team regarded as possible the best urban warfare fighters on earth today. Their hand-to-hand combat training alone surpasses what the average U.S. Special Ops members goes through in the U.S. military.

Ironically, the the story of the movie was set when Rio was in the story, preparing for the arrival of Pope John Paul II. Hence the ensuing bloodshed to "clean up" the streets before he came, because he requested to stay right by a favela.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Chi Zhuzi' timestamp='1285032643' post='2174965']
I may be wrong, but I think Era was speaking more about approaching people, the gang member in this case, in a personal way I'm not suggesting he was excluding your scenario. And I'm not sure it's wise for every single Christian to intervene directly in occasions like your hypothetical situation. If they don't have the mental constitution, the physical endurance, or they don't quite understand who and what they are getting themselves involved with, they ought stay out of it. They may end up severely harmed. The situation might escalate with their mouth.

And it's not young boys - as much if not more often its a pack of girls. The situation might be young men in their mid 20's, and if that is the case someone is likely to be seriously hurt.

But I've been on the bus, on my way to the boxing gym, when 3 teen girls cursing loudly, were asked to be quite by an older woman in her 50's. The 3 girls and the 20'ish year old - very pregnant - woman with the girls, began verbally assaulting and threatening the woman. Not I, not a man, not the bus driver, not no one said a word or got involved. The price of getting involved, opening your mouth, can be steep. I understood the animals I was around. We travel the same terrain. I pick up the same scents they do. Now, if I got involved that would have been my choice and that would have been fine, because I know the consequences, or potential consequences. Some nit wit Christian that simply thinks they are doing a good deed and all shall be fine the next day or so they wait on or ride the bus, ought stay out of it, especially if they have kids. Kind of hard to take care of your kids when you can no longer move your legs and need to live the rest of your life in a wheelchair.

Cops might take to long too. Better tell them someone has a gun. My parents live a block away from a police station, it took the cops over an hour to respond to their call about a break-in next door. Cops are too busy chasing, arresting, and questioning other people to respond to every call with lightening speed.
[/quote]

I think Bernhard Goetz, while his reaction was a bit flawed in its execution, was certainly headed in the right direction when it comes to how to properly respond to thug violence. The majority of New Yorkers agreed.

~Sternhauser

[elizabeth09]

It`s very good. thank you for sharing.

[Era Might]

Sorry I haven't responded to the recent posts. I don't have an Internet connection at home at the moment, and the library closes too early for me to get here for very long during the week. But I'll be able to come here on Saturday and respond again to the thread.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Era Might