Police Stops: Constitutional

[Lil Red]

there was a local police check-stop the other morning here. got me to wondering: are they constitutional?

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1284498202' post='2173166']there was a local police check-stop the other morning here. got me to wondering: are they constitutional?[/quote]From my understanding... Depends if it is warranted, if it is on public property ([i]like a road)[/i], and if it isn't aimed specifically at any groups or individuals but at the prevention of crime.

[Sternhauser]

They're truly not a constitutional issue (unless the cops get even a penny of Federal aid, of course.) But the Supreme Court has ruled that such warrantless searches (and they did call alcohol and drug checkpoints "searches") are "constitutional," as long as the public is given advanced notice, everyone is stopped, showing no prejudice, and it is "effective." Meaning, it nets results. Meaning, the judges believe that the end justifies the means.

Look forward for this being used to fully search every vehicle for evidence of [i]any[/i] "crime."

~Sternhauser

Edited September 14, 2010 by Sternhauser

[CatherineM]

They publish the locations of them ahead of time, so we have legal notice. They do that here with where the traffic speed cameras are going to be for the week. I find it easier to just go the speed limit.

[she_who_is_not]

Like CatherineM said, they have to give legal notice ahead of time and they have to be random. You can't set up a stop because you get a tip that a drug trafficker is on xyz road.

[Lil Red]

hmm, lots of food for thought. thanks everyone!

[rkwright]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1284502071' post='2173182']
They're truly not a constitutional issue (unless the cops get even a penny of Federal aid, of course.) [/quote]

Not sure what you mean by this... but the 4th Amendment applies to local state actors regardless of whether they receive Federal aid.

[she_who_is_not]

[quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1284640907' post='2173753']
Not sure what you mean by this... but the 4th Amendment applies to local state actors regardless of whether they receive Federal aid.
[/quote]

Incorporation doctrine, right? Mapp v. Ohio?

[rkwright]

[quote name='she_who_is_not' timestamp='1284641651' post='2173757']
Incorporation doctrine, right? Mapp v. Ohio?
[/quote]

Yes, though I think it was incorporated eariler, maybe Weeks or some case like that? But Mapp applied the exclusionary rule to the states and really put the teeth in the 4th.

I miss the criminal justice world, so much more interesting than the civil!

[CatherineM]

[quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1284651294' post='2173790']

I miss the criminal justice world, so much more interesting than the civil!
[/quote]
It's interesting until you get a call in the middle of the night to bail out someone from church, whose wife is a good friend of yours, because he was arrested exposing himself in a gay movie house. Didn't even know we had one of those in town until then.

[rkwright]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1284651897' post='2173792']
It's interesting until you get a call in the middle of the night to bail out someone from church, whose wife is a good friend of yours, because he was arrested exposing himself in a gay movie house. Didn't even know we had one of those in town until then.
[/quote]

well sure its shocking...

but beats the heck out of looking through 70,000 pages of invoices for that one magic document... I'm killing time for the next hour waiting for the next 3,000 to be printed off. yay....

edit: btw as an attorney can you bail out a client? or this guy wasn't a client? I had to take the MPRE recently and some of those rules are floating around somewhere.

Edited September 16, 2010 by rkwright

[CatherineM]

[quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1284652388' post='2173794']
well sure its shocking...

but beats the heck out of looking through 70,000 pages of invoices for that one magic document... I'm killing time for the next hour waiting for the next 3,000 to be printed off. yay....

edit: btw as an attorney can you bail out a client? or this guy wasn't a client? I had to take the MPRE recently and some of those rules are floating around somewhere.
[/quote]

In Oklahoma, your bar card can get people out on their own recognizance as long as the offense is under a certain amount. You have to be sure about them though, because you are basically accepting responsibility for them. I'd never done legal work for him before, but from the moment I agreed to get out of bed and come down, he was a client.

I remember the MPRE well. At that time a passing grade was 75, and I got a 117. Best grade I ever got in law.

[she_who_is_not]

I'm taking the MPRE in November. All I remember from Professional Responsibility is being told to never sleep with my client. And watching funny lawyer commercials. Sorry.

[rkwright]

[quote name='she_who_is_not' timestamp='1284654117' post='2173803']
I'm taking the MPRE in November. All I remember from Professional Responsibility is being told to never sleep with my client. And watching funny lawyer commercials. Sorry.
[/quote]

Yea that was the extent of my class too... and keep client funds seperate.

Good luck on it though. If you study you'll pass easily, so thats comforting.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1284640907' post='2173753']
Not sure what you mean by this... but the 4th Amendment applies to local state actors regardless of whether they receive Federal aid.
[/quote]

I don't consider the eviscerated corpse of the Constitution to be the Constitution.

It would be like calling the ashes of my father "my father." A vague link between the two distinct entities does exist, but the use of such words would be completely equivocal.

~Sternhauser