Sacrifice

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' timestamp='1284437418' post='2172921']
Smiles gently... I was praying to hear you say these words nunsense. There is great hope for the future now. God's will has no why it just IS. I think we must remember not to go overboard in the other direction... for neither of the attributes of a 1990 or 1991 community are mutually exclusive of the other. Both have their beauty and you will find a full spectrum of both within Carmel as each Carmel is different.
[/quote]
And I have been praying to hear that the two of you have arrived at a meeting of the minds, as it was clear that your hearts were already in accord.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='sistersintigo' timestamp='1285275433' post='2175527']
And I have been praying to hear that the two of you have arrived at a meeting of the minds, as it was clear that your hearts were already in accord.
[/quote]


If you are referring to IT and myself - you couldn't be more wrong - meeting of the minds? Never! She and I fight like cats and dogs

Because you don't come to chat, sisterintigo, you miss out on the 'real' communication. Here it just seems adverserial as one side or another presents a point of view and it looks like a debate. But chat is a lot more interactive and we get to know each other better. IT and I are fine.

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285286122' post='2175598']
If you are referring to IT and myself - you couldn't be more wrong - meeting of the minds? Never! She and I fight like cats and dogs

Because you don't come to chat, sisterintigo, you miss out on the 'real' communication. Here it just seems adverserial as one side or another presents a point of view and it looks like a debate. But chat is a lot more interactive and we get to know each other better. IT and I are fine.
[/quote]


Gee imust be going senile... i don't remember ever having a fight with Nunsense....scratching head. We are individuals and each of us goes to carmel lives it within the framework of our personal spirituality and personalities... I see no problem with that.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Indwelling Trinity

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' timestamp='1285286646' post='2175603']
Gee imust be going senile... i don't remember ever having a fight with Nunsense....scratching head. We are individuals and each of us goes to carmel lives it within the framework of our personal spirituality and personalities... I see no problem with that.
[/quote]


IT - we're getting a reptutation - did you see what vee wrote over in the Carmelites thread? Pitchforks no less!!!!

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285286934' post='2175606']
IT - we're getting a reputation - did you see what vee wrote over in the Carmelites thread? Pitchforks no less!!!!
[/quote]
I saw that too...

[DameAgnes]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1284341984' post='2172470']
This, right here. Spot on MithLuin!


When I first got to my new community, I couldn't believe that God wanted me there because I was still pining for the 1990s style convent that I had been in before. I wanted to kiss the floor and do refectory mortifications, and kneel before 'Our Reverend Mother'. I wanted the full St Therese habit and and all the romantic trimmings, including the fluttery feelings. I wanted my penances to be traditional and my sacrifices to be obvious.

What I 'got' was a modified habit if chosen and my own name if preferred. I got a Formator instead of a Novice Mistress and a Prioress who is called Sister instead of Mother. I got a 1991 Constitutions which allows for nuns to leave the enclosure, not only for medical reasons but also for human reasons such as funerals or association meetings. I got a convent where I can help myself to a cup of tea or a snack if I need it and a cell that has a heater and an electric blanket as well.

At first I thought I was living in luxury and i worried that this Carmel was not 'austere enough' and not 'really a Carmel'. I looked down upon them and judged them from my loftly height as a wannabe saint. I was more holy than holy in my attitude and 'just knew' how God wanted the Carmelite life to be lived.

I was an arrogant prig.

What I REALLY got was a Prioress who joins her sisters by taking her day for the cooking and her week for the dishes, and a Formator who lets me debate with her about my own point of view and tries to help me see beyond my own limited perspective to a true understanding of Carmelite spirituality and love of neighbor.

What I got was a community of incredibly kind and loving women who have given their lives and their hearts to God, each one an individual and a human being and a 'sister' to the others. I got sisters to love and who appear to love me, despite my arrogance and my spiritual snobbiness. I got real women living real lives of sacrifice in learning to love each other.

What I REALLY got was a sacrifice of self that was designed for me by God, and not a pretty picture perfect world of my own imagining where I could live out a fantasy life of sanctimonious and shallow spirituality. I got God's will for me. And I feel lots of fluttery feelings about Him, an abiding and passionate love for His infinitely patient and loving care for me as a person.
[/quote]

Nunsense, I was praying for this for you. So much better to be where God actually WANTS us, instead of where we keep telling him he "must" want us.

A great thread.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='DameAgnes' timestamp='1285288267' post='2175614']
Nunsense, I was praying for this for you. So much better to be where God actually WANTS us, instead of where we keep telling him he "must" want us.

A great thread.
[/quote]


Well, the thing is that I accept where He wants me to be, but I also think He may want me there for a reason. And He put me other places first to show me some things that I wouldn't have known otherwise.

Every Carmel I have entered has had His hand written all over it, so I don't think that I was following my will as much as trying to respond to what was placed in front of me. This is pretty much the same thing now. I am trying to respond as always to His invitation. I don't know what that means or what will happen, but I want to be like soft clay in His hands that He can shape according to His good will and pleasure.

[vee]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285286934' post='2175606']
IT - we're getting a reptutation - did you see what vee wrote over in the Carmelites thread? Pitchforks no less!!!!

[/quote]

[Skinzo]

I think the only hope of  succeeding in religious life is to enter with a commitment (and expectation)to sacrifice EVERYTHING. I think it is nothing less than a full giving to God. If you have to sit down and make a list and say "Well, I'm willing to give up this but not that" you should not go into any order or even diocesan service. A priest I know says "Ordination is the gift that keeps on giving and taking....and taking....and taking" 

There is a passage in Thomas Merton's "Seven Story Mountain" which I think is also very apt. When Merton entered the monastery one of the monks said to him : "Anyone who enters here seeking anything but God and the salvation of his soul is wasting his time". I don't remember the exact quote but I think that's close enough. 




S. 

[Cherie]

[quote name='Skinzo' timestamp='1286095374' post='2177608']
I think the only hope of succeeding in religious life is to enter with a commitment (and expectation)to sacrifice EVERYTHING. I think it is nothing less than a full giving to God. If you have to sit down and make a list and say "Well, I'm willing to give up this but not that" you should not go into any order or even diocesan service. A priest I know says "Ordination is the gift that keeps on giving and taking....and taking....and taking"
[/quote]

Your post makes me think of something I recently read. Sacrifice is something that is necessary, no matter [i]what[/i] vocation we're called to; each vocation has many sacrifices, sometimes they're just different kinds. As Catholics, we have a beautiful understanding of the meaning of sacrifice -- we have the PERFECT example in Jesus Christ -- but you can see there are so many problems with the world today because people are either afraid of sacrifice, or they scorn it.

[vee]

I beg God to give me the grace and ability to echo Mary's fiat, the greatest sacrificial yes next to Christ's. To help with that I like these prayers of St Ignatius of Loyola.

Take, O Lord, and receive my entire liberty, my memory, my understanding and my whole will. All that I am and all that I possess You have given me: I surrender it all to You to be disposed of according to Your will. Give me only Your love and Your grace; with these I will be rich enough, and will desire nothing more. Amen.

Grant, O Lord, that my heart may neither desire nor seek anything but what is necessary for the fulfillment of Thy holy Will. May health or sickness, riches or poverty, honors or contempt, humiliations, leave my soul in that state of perfect detachment to which I desire to attain for Thy greater honor and Thy greater glory. Amen.

O my God, teach me to be generous:
to serve you as you deserve to be served;
to give without counting the cost;
to fight without fear of being wounded;
to work without seeking rest;
and to spend myself without expecting any reward,
but the knowledge that I am doing your holy will.

[vee]

While Im at it I will post the Anima Christi because well... I love it!!!

Soul of Christ, sanctify me
Body of Christ, save me
Blood of Christ, inebriate me
Water from Christ's side, wash me
Passion of Christ, strengthen me
O good Jesus, hear me
Within Thy wounds hide me
Suffer me not to be separated from Thee
From the malicious enemy defend me
In the hour of my death call me
And bid me come unto Thee
That I may praise Thee with Thy saints
and with Thy angels
Forever and ever
Amen

[Ephrem Augustine]

Its humbling and even sanctifying to realize how much work we need to get done on ourselves, and how far we are from it... from holiness

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1283970594' post='2170105']
I am going through a confusing time right now.

I am ashamed to admit it: I am afraid of making sacrifices. Lately when I have been thinking (not praying) about my vocation, I find myself thinking "which way of life will allow me to not sacrifice so much and still be a Christian." Not in those words exactly, but that is where my thinking, taken to its logical conclusion, leads. The way I actually say it in my head makes it sound less ridiculous. But it is no less ridiculous. I do not feel attracted to the sacrifices of married life at all. I am attracted to the sacrifices of religious life ... but I still would rather not make them.

I have been looking into different more middle of the road communities. They have all been beautiful so far. I have felt very relaxed and not at all nervous in these communities. On the other hand, I have also experienced this definite feeling of: "So, this is it?" I found myself ... disappointed. Disappointed that there was not more silence, more observance, more decorum.

These communities have everything I said I was looking for in religious life. And yet there was that sense of "lack."
So do I not know what I want? Is what I think I "want" just symptomatic of an incorrect attitude towards sacrifice?
Or is God calling me to the religious life I CAN live as opposed to the one I am attracted to?
On the other hand ...
when thinking about living your life in a certain community, shouldn't your heart flutter a little? Even just a little?

Sigh. I am confused.
[/quote]


I know I probably don't belong on this board since I have never considered a religious vocation but since getting to know -- both in person and over the internet -- a number of people in religious vocations I've become curious about people who choose religious vocations.

You know Lilllabettt it sounds to me like you don't really want to do it and you're feeling guilty about it. If you joined anyway I wouldn't think that things would get any easier over time. Maybe you'd just regret it more and more that you made the decision to enter a religious vocation in the first place. Like a bad marriage where you hoped you'd learn to love the other person. Some things just aren't meant to be.

Do you have a tight time schedule? Can you enter a religious vocation at an older age? My opinion, for what it's worth, is to wait on making a decision about a religious vocation -- and just enjoy life instead. You can keep it open as an option. And perhaps in a couple of years, or ten years, or twenty years -- go for it! Of course there's always the risk that you might meet some guy and fall in love and get married instead, but perhaps that's a risk worth taking!

[Lilllabettt]

No ... a religious vocation is something I want very badly. I am simply afraid that I would not be strong enough to make the sacrifices involved. You do not want to go into a thing like that and then do it wrong.

Of course, if a person has a vocation, then God provides the grace. When they reach for it in the moment of need, it is there.