Why Homeless

[dairygirl4u2c]

1. how would you answer the question?
a guy from scandinavia, upper parts of europe, came here. he saw a bunch of homeless people. he said "you guys have all these homeless people." the american was like "yes, we do". the scandinavia was like ".... why?" that american, a guy i know.... said he didn't know how to answer him. how would you answer him?


2. also. isn't the whole point of things like homelessness... such that society's ultimte goal being hoping they don't breed? cause if they weren't breeding, why not give them a place to live and not starve?
also, isnt it the case that they're not goinngo ot be breeding anyways? industrial nations are known for 'leveling out' in terms of population.... they start growing exponentially, and hten start leveling off. america's done that. partially cause people are greedy and would rather have 'stuff' than kids, but also paritally cause there's only so much room for expansion... and even if they did grow more, 'wanting stuff' would be less and less of the reason, and 'nothing to give' would be the real reason. for most people ven know, it's not as if htey are in luxury, wanting a kid instead of a boat. wanting a kid instead of not being able to get by, more like it. but anyways, if we're done growing, breeding isnt the issue. those homeless will just have enough to sustain themselves, that's all. so why not give them a very basic, or let them work for it from sciety, or something?
if breeding isn't hte bottomline here.... what is hte bottomline? 'they don't deserve it'? 'they're stealing my tax money?' how hard is it to build a structure, and give them a little out of the masses of food we have? every scientist who knows the issues acknowledges it's very possibe to feed ll hte world... it's just matter of political will.
[what abou all the super rich people? (imagine a guy who have nine beds to sleep on, and ht other nine people have one. or imagine 90 yards of a football field go to 1 person, and the other yard goes to nine. these are representative of how wealh is distributed) ]
(i do sometimes wonder if China is the real example here... they expanded to the point of poverty for billion. and they resort to killing their kids caus there's too many people. my guess is they ar used to poverty, and don't mind expanding to destitution, unlike americans. so maybe if we are leveling out, we're about only 40% to where we should be. eg, we have 400 million, china has 1 billion. if you think china is the real example to follow for our future... why? and what do you make of hte 'leveling out' point?

[dairygirl4u2c]

even though it wasn't PC i used to even recetly think 'stop them from breeding' was really the reason why we would justify it etc. it's only till recently that ive been thinking the last post, that ive been changing my mind.
cause when i started to think about answering the question... 'why homeless', i wanted to secredly answer 'to stop htem from breeding', and really thats' the oly answer i woudl give, even if i try to not say it, or beat arond the bush. (not tottally secret, im not gonna lie or deny it... or should i say, i wouldnt have. i think my mind is changing on this point, and even why we have homeless people. why we would allow homeless shelters to overfow such that some have no where to go, etc.

[CatherineM]

The percentage of homeless that have a serious mental illness is 75%. Until mental illness is considered on par with things like heart disease and cancer, we will have homeless. They are trying to end homelessness in Edmonton with a 10 year plan. They are trying the housing-first approach which means you don't have to have your addictions under control, or be stable on psychiatric meds first. It's the opposite of how homelessness has been handled previously in most of North America. It's an experiment that started in New York. My husband isn't optimistic that it will work, but we'll see.

[dairygirl4u2c]

per china though. it might not be so much that they're willing otexpand o the point of destitution. it might be that... plus the fact tha thegovernment took care of you if you did, even if destitute. socialism, china, is for sure. here we dont have that government will take care of you think, you gotta watch yourself, and what kids you have, etc. point ultimately being... we're not like china, again, and it seems like leveling out is what is happening here.

[dairygirl4u2c]

at most facilities, they say things like 'they have life issues', meaning they're drug alcohol mental illness, by and large. but, i do know there's plenty of 'normal' people who live at shelters, even if they are usually a little dumber or uncoothe. when the ones who are alcohlics etc heir own problem, to some extent, and that causes overflow and good people from not having shelter.... that's a problem.
really though, it's not too much to ensure at least temporary housing and food for people with alchol probelms too though. like seattle does that, gives even alcoholics a place just for them to 'walk it off' etc. not sure how that's workin for em.
it doesn't seems like the uestio though, 'why homeless' is being answererd when we start trying to say it's all their fault, when it's obviously not.

i do know, in the econ times recently.. for some harder hit areas, homelessness jumped up to 20%. prob worse in some areas. tha's not just mental illness there, that's more like people had jobs etc and now they dont, sort of stuff.

Edited September 4, 2010 by dairygirl4u2c

[Selah]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1283573427' post='2167681']
The percentage of homeless that have a serious mental illness is 75%. Until mental illness is considered on par with things like heart disease and cancer, we will have homeless. They are trying to end homelessness in Edmonton with a 10 year plan. They are trying the housing-first approach which means you don't have to have your addictions under control, or be stable on psychiatric meds first. It's the opposite of how homelessness has been handled previously in most of North America. It's an experiment that started in New York. My husband isn't optimistic that it will work, but we'll see.
[/quote]


Well said.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1283573427' post='2167681']
The percentage of homeless that have a serious mental illness is 75%. Until mental illness is considered on par with things like heart disease and cancer, we will have homeless. They are trying to end homelessness in Edmonton with a 10 year plan. They are trying the housing-first approach which means you don't have to have your addictions under control, or be stable on psychiatric meds first. It's the opposite of how homelessness has been handled previously in most of North America. It's an experiment that started in New York. My husband isn't optimistic that it will work, but we'll see.
[/quote]
What happened when they started it in New York? Obviously there's still a heck of a lot of homelessness.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1283611500' post='2167773']
What happened when they started it in New York? Obviously there's still a heck of a lot of homelessness.
[/quote]
It's not just there. Dozens of cities across America have started using this model, including Calgary. The biggest impact has been on the savings jurisdictions get on the medical end. The AMA did a survey about a year ago, and it showed a savings of $2500 per person per month on social and medical costs.

[rachael]

huh?

[Hilde]

We have homeless people in scandinavia

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1283619001' post='2167826']
It's not just there. Dozens of cities across America have started using this model, including Calgary. The biggest impact has been on the savings jurisdictions get on the medical end. The AMA did a survey about a year ago, and it showed a savings of $2500 per person per month on social and medical costs.
[/quote]
So... does that imply that people in the lowest income bracket are benefitting, but it's not necessarily decreasing the amount of homelessness?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1283648579' post='2168005']
So... does that imply that people in the lowest income bracket are benefitting, but it's not necessarily decreasing the amount of homelessness?
[/quote]
In the year and a half since the new initiative has started, 700 people have been placed in permanent housing. We won't know until October when they do the homeless census as to whether the total number has gone down. The people my husband works with think the number has gone up. I don't know if that is because of the economy, or if it is because the homeless are migrating here because of the new programs. I know that has happened in St. Pete. When St. Pete passed laws designed to end aggressive panhandling and all panhandling in the downtown core, or on right of ways, the homeless population went down. They are headed to Lakeland. That's a town between St. Pete and Orlando where the local churches are making really nice areas for the homeless. Catholic Charities in St. Pete has a really nice tent city with lots of services, but they do background checks on the residents, so those with outstanding warrants can't go there without being arrested.

The savings are that a person on the street takes up an enormous amount of finances. One guy with frost bite or uncontrolled diabetes that loses a leg while living on the street can be in the hospital for months and take lots of social services. If they are in social housing, that is cut to a fraction because they are less likely to get frostbite, and medical conditions can be monitored before they become expensive.

[Nihil Obstat]

Hm, very interesting.

[dairygirl4u2c]

http://www.mainstreet.com/article/moneyinvesting/news/obama-sets-deadline-end-homelessness?puc=outbrain&cm_ven=outbrain&obref=obnetwork

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Chicago, which reduced chronic homelessness by 12% from 2005-2007, is an example of the Housing First model of supported housing, which minimizes barriers to accessing housing (instead of requiring a certain period of sobriety to be eligible, for example), along with improved medical attention[/quote]

[quote]chronic homelessness (persons who have been homeless for more than a year, a group that saw an 11% decrease in 2009)—[/quote]