Love Is Not Tolerance

[Jaime]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1282664065' post='2162455']
Are you saying that your argument ("help a Hindu become a better Hindu") is compatable with the Holy Catholic Church, Who desires for all people to be unified under Her roof, so that all may give true and perfect worship to the Holy Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
[/quote]

I'm saying it worked for Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. I'm saying she's one of the best models I can find in modern history of how to fully live out a life in unconditional love and change the world with your presence.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1282664505' post='2162458']
I'm saying it worked for Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. I'm saying she's one of the best models I can find in modern history of how to fully live out a life in unconditional love and change the world with your presence.
[/quote]

I am not going to encourage others in their non-Catholic religion. As a Catholic, I have the duty and the obligation to stand firm to my faith and reveal the Truth to others.

I shall follow Christ and His commands.

[b]"And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." Matthew 28: 16-20[/b]

After all, it worked for Christ - He established a Church.

[Jaime]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1282664700' post='2162461']
I am not going to encourage others in their non-Catholic religion. As a Catholic, I have the duty and the obligation to stand firm to my faith and reveal the Truth to others.

I shall follow Christ and His commands.

[b]"And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." Matthew 28: 16-20[/b]

After all, it worked for Christ - He established a Church.
[/quote]

Are you suggesting that Blessed Teresa of Calcutta failed in helping people convert?

[HisChildForever]

I find it interesting that you have not acknowledged my steadfastness to adhere to Christ and Holy Mother Church. God bless.

[Jaime]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1282665748' post='2162467']
I find it interesting that you have not acknowledged my steadfastness to adhere to Christ and Holy Mother Church. God bless.
[/quote]

I find it interesting that you have not acknowledged the fact that the Church would never give someone the title of Blessed (as in Blessed Teresa of Calcutta) if they did not steadfastly adhere to Christ and Holy Mother Church.

Do you feel that you adhere more closely than Mother Teresa?

[Socrates]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1282664700' post='2162461']
I am not going to encourage others in their non-Catholic religion. As a Catholic, I have the duty and the obligation to stand firm to my faith and reveal the Truth to others.

I shall follow Christ and His commands.

[b]"And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." Matthew 28: 16-20[/b]

After all, it worked for Christ - He established a Church.
[/quote]
Oh, you don't have to pay attention to that. That was from back in the Dark Ages of the Church, looonnnggg before Vatican II and the 1992 Catechism. Jesus didn't know what He was talking about back then.
The Apostles sure wasted a lot of time preaching conversion to Christ and baptizing people in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, back in Acts. We know now that they should've just helped pagans become better pagans. Everyone goes to heaven anyway, unless they're too mean and judgmental, of course.

[Socrates]

The original saying by Saint Cyprian of Carthage (3rd century AD) is found his Letter LXXII, Ad Jubajanum de haereticis baptizandis, and in Latin reads: "Salus extra ecclesiam non est".[3]

Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."

Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (1302): "We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, the Spouse in the Canticle proclaiming: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. One is she of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her' (Canticle of Canticles 6:8); which represents the one mystical body whose head is Christ, of Christ indeed, as God. And in this, 'one Lord, one faith, one baptism' (Ephesians 4:5). Certainly Noah had one ark at the time of the flood, prefiguring one Church which perfect to one cubit having one ruler and guide, namely Noah, outside of which we read all living things were destroyed… We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

[Socrates]

Pope Leo XII (1823–1829), Encyclical Ubi Primum:[quote] "It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth Itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members. For we have a surer word of the prophet, and in writing to you We speak wisdom among the perfect; not the wisdom of this world but the wisdom of God in a mystery. By it we are taught, and by divine faith we hold, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and that no other name under heaven is given to men except the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth in which we must be saved. This is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church… For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: 'If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.'"
[/quote]
Pope Gregory XVI (1831–1846), Encyclical Summo Jugiter Studio (on Mixed marriages), 5-6, May 27, 1832:[quote] "You know how zealously Our predecessors taught that very article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation. The words of that celebrated disciple of the Apostles, martyred Saint Ignatius, in his letter to the Philadelphians are relevant to this matter: 'Be not deceived, my brother; if anyone follows a schismatic, he will not attain the inheritance of the kingdom of God.' Moreover, Saint Augustine and the other African bishops who met in the Council of Cirta in the year 412 explained the same thing at greater length: 'Whoever has separated himself from the Catholic Church, no matter how laudably he lives, will not have eternal life, but has earned the anger of God because of this one crime: that he abandoned his union with Christ' (Epsitle 141). Omitting other appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We shall praise Saint Gregory the Great, who expressly testifies that this is indeed the teaching of the Catholic Church. He says: 'The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved' (Moral. in Job, 16.5). Official acts of the Church proclaim the same dogma. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published with the synod of the Lateran IV, these things are written: 'There is one universal Church of the faithful outside of which no one at all is saved.' Finally, the same dogma is expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use (Creed of the Council of Trent), but also that which the Greek Orthodox Church uses (cf. Gregory XIII, Profession 'Sanctissimus') and that which other Eastern Catholics use (cf. Benedict XIV, Profession 'Nuper ad Nos')… We are so concerned about this serious and well known dogma, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many testimonies."[/quote]

Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Allocution Singulari Quadem, December 9, 1854:[quote] "Not without sorrow we have learned that another error, no less destructive, has taken possession of some parts of the Catholic world, and has taken up its abode in the souls of many Catholics who think that one should have good hope of the eternal salvation of all those who have never lived in the true Church of Christ. Therefore, they are wont to ask very often what will be the lot and condition of those who have not submitted in any way to the Catholic faith, and, by bringing forward most vain reasons, they make a response favorable to their false opinion. Far be it from Us, Venerable Brethren, to presume on the limits of the divine mercy which is infinite; far from Us, to wish to scrutinize the hidden counsel and "judgements of God" which are "a great abyss" (Ps. 35.7) and cannot be penetrated by human thought. But, as is Our Apostolic Duty, we wish your episcopal solicitude and vigilance to be aroused, so that you will strive as much as you can to drive form the mind of men that impious and equally fatal opinion, namely, that the way of eternal salvation can be found in any religion whatsoever. May you demonstrate with skill and learning in which you excel, to the people entrusted to your care that the dogmas of the Catholic faith are in no wise opposed to divine mercy and justice.
"For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God. Now, in truth, who would arrogate so much to himself as to mark the limits of such an ignorance, because of the nature and variety of peoples, regions, innate dispositions, and of so many other things? For, in truth, when released from these corporeal chains 'we shall see God as He is' (1 John 3.2), we shall understand perfectly by how close and beautiful a bond divine mercy and justice are united; but as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this mortal mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, there is "one God, one faith, one baptism" (Eph. 4.5); it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry.
"But, just as the way of charity demands, let us pour forth continual prayers that all nations everywhere may be converted to Christ; and let us be devoted to the common salvation of men in proportion to our strength, 'for the hand of the Lord is not shortened' (Isa. 9.1) and the gifts of heavenly grace will not be wanting to those who sincerely wish and ask to be refreshed by this light."[/quote]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1282665748' post='2162467']
I find it interesting that you have not acknowledged my steadfastness to adhere to Christ and Holy Mother Church. God bless.
[/quote]
you just came up on the "people you may know" on my facebook.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1282666145' post='2162468']
I find it interesting that you have not acknowledged the fact that the Church would never give someone the title of Blessed (as in Blessed Teresa of Calcutta) if they did not steadfastly adhere to Christ and Holy Mother Church.

Do you feel that you adhere more closely than Mother Teresa?
[/quote]

Do you feel that Mother Teresa can be compared to Jesus Christ, Son of the only Living God?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1282663141' post='2162443']
We should preach to Hindus and Muslims through our words and deeds. We should not be encouraging them to remain Hindus and Muslims.
[/quote]

Thank you for this excellent and edifying post.

[Jaime]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1282667924' post='2162478']
Do you feel that Mother Teresa can be compared to Jesus Christ, Son of the only Living God?
[/quote]

I think I'd like an answer to my question first.

Let' start with my first one on whether or not Mother Teresa had a positive impact on conversion. I would argue she has had a dramatic impact on conversion. Possible (and I cannot verify this) greater than Bishop Fulton Sheen. But that would be based on the fact that more people recognize her

[Lil Red]

moving to debate. sigh.

[Mr.Cat]

[center][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Jan_Wijnants_-_Parable_of_the_Good_Samaritan.jpg[/img][/center][quote][url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/49010.htm"][b]Luke 10:26-37[/b][/url]
"And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life? But he said to him: [color="#FF0000"]What is written in the law? how readest thou?[/color] He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said to him: [color="#FF0000"]Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.[/color] But he willing to justify himself, said to Jesus: And who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering, said: [color="#FF0000"]A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, who also stripped him, and having wounded him went away, leaving him half dead.

And it chanced, that a certain priest went down the same way: and seeing him, passed by. In like manner also a Levite, when he was near the place and saw him, passed by. But a certain Samaritan being on his journey, came near him; and seeing him, was moved with compassion. And going up to him, bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine: and setting him upon his own beast, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And the next day he took out two pence, and gave to the host, and said: Take care of him; and whatsoever thou shalt spend over and above, I, at my return, will repay thee.

Which of these three, in thy opinion, was neighbour to him that fell among the robbers?[/color] But he said: He that shewed mercy to him. And Jesus said to him: [color="#FF0000"]Go, and do thou in like manner.[/color]"[/quote]A wise Priest once told me that this parable is well known throughout the world, even among non-christian cultures, for its simple but yet eloquent message. That christian love is that of mercy and care, a faith and religion founded in the heart. That whoever is in need is our neighbor, regardless of who they are or what they believe. That this christian love is necessary for salvation since that is exactly what the parable is concerning, what must be done for salvation.

It is curious that those who passed by in the parable, those supposed servants of the religion of God, merely passed by the one in need because it inconvenienced them. This parable the Priest proposed gave the clear message that the religion Christ demanded is not one of complacency but one of universal christian charity to all, even to those who hate and persecute us. Even more remarkably the parable illustrates a Samaritan, not a Jew, doing what is right... a stranger to the Jewish Religion.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Socrates]

Christian charity demands that we love all people regardless of their false beliefs, but does not demand that we love or condone false beliefs.
Seems a lot of modern "Catholics" can't get that straight.

No one is saved by being Muslim or Hindu or any other false religion. True charity seeks to convert others to Christ, not to encourage ignorance and error.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Socrates