What Do You Expect Of A 13 Year Old Boy

[mommas_boy]

Rote memorization is indeed an extremely poor measure of comprehension. However, being able to paraphrase concepts in his own words, which your brother seems able to do by your statements -- "It seems that he knew the answers", and "He understands the concepts" -- being able to paraphrase actually demonstrates retention. To an educator, your brother is operating at a higher level by paraphrasing than by simply repeating what he's read, because he has to actually synthesize a sentence that makes sense, rather than repeat a sentence that was already constructed.

</teacher_mode>

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1281893432' post='2157790']
. . . I didn't vote in the poll because it really doesn't apply to me, with the exception of the fact that I did have a very great desire to be confirmed (I'm a convert).
[/quote]
I nulled my vote too.

[Wikitiki]

Oh wow, memorization? I'm extremely glad I didn't have to do any of that, or I'm pretty positive I wouldn't have gotten a thing right. I suppose memorization being good or not has to do with a person's learning style. I personally usually need to copy the way someone or something else explains a concept, but if you give me one source and say I have to use only that one source, a mental block sort of pops up.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1281879918' post='2157728']
JMJ
My brother didn't do so well on his confirmation test. It seems that he knew the answers, but he couldn't quote them from the Baltimore Catechism verbatim....word from word. He understands the concepts, as Fr Assistant asked to double check, but he doesn't know the exact wording from the BC. And now we are wondering how much desire little brother has to make his confirmation. He wants to, but doesn't seem to exactly on fire for it.
So, I ask you. How much desire did you have for Confirmation when you were 13, is it inrealistic to expect someone to be able to fully memorize from the BC
What happened to Adam and Eve that reflects on us?
..."On account of their sin Adam and Eve lost sanctifying grace, the right to Heaven, and their special gifts; they became subject to death, to suffering, and to a strong inclination to evil, and they were driven from the Garden of Paradise."
My thought is that if you understand it, that's good. But sometimes with memorizing things, you forget them after the test...right?
[/quote]

I love a lot about the traditional way of applying the sacraments and I absolutely love the Baltimore Catechism. But I'm not a fan of requiring memorization. Not that I think there's anything wrong with it if you can do it (though I can't very well). But I don't think memorization is a good measure of how well one understands something. It's kind of like training an animal. You can teach a dog to do certain things, but does that dog understand why it is doing it or what it means? It doesn't know that peeing on the carpet is bad or chewing up the furniture is bad. It just knows the biological reaction of performing for a treat. I think simply making a child memorize something without them understanding what it is they or memorizing or why, then it can lead to faith issues later on when they are old enough to realize that they "know" the right answer, but don't know why it should be the right answer, as many fallen-away Catholics claim.

[mcts]

At 13, I had zero desire for confirmation, so I'm VERY glad that my parish does it at 16 instead.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='mcts' timestamp='1281899328' post='2157810']
At 13, I had zero desire for confirmation, so I'm VERY glad that my parish does it at 16 instead.
[/quote]
I think it is fine to hold off for people who are not ready. For teens who are ready, it is unfair to make them wait.

I think taking a test for confirmation is rediculous. We don't require anyone to pass a test for any other sacraments. No wonder so many people treat it like a "graduation."

[Apotheoun]

More than ever I think young people need the grace of the sacrament of confirmation.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281899639' post='2157818']
More than ever I think young people need the grace of the sacrament of confirmation.
[/quote]
Ditto.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

Does anyone fully understand the workings of God in grace through the Sacrament of Confirmation? If no, then why is there such a stress on the "full understanding" of the human agent. Yes, there should be an acceptance of the sacrament and an understanding of the gravity of the choice to receive it, but I think we place too much emphasis on "a full understanding." It should be a grasping not a memorizing and internal active decision and recognition of gravity of choice, but one can never truly and fully understand the workings of God. Eye has not seen, ear has not heard....

[Apotheoun]

I think that the Roman Church should consider lowering the age of confirmation so that it takes place before the reception of first communion.

I would give the sacrament of confirmation to a child even if he does not fully grasp its meaning, because as important as theoretical knowledge is it is not a sufficient reason to withhold the grace of the holy mystery. Besides, catechetical instruction can be continued after the reception of the sacrament.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281900612' post='2157826']
I think that the Roman Church should consider lowering the age of confirmation so that it takes place before the reception of first communion.

I would give the sacrament of confirmation to a child even if he does not fully grasp its meaning, because as important as theoretical knowledge is it is not a sufficient reason to withhold the grace of the holy mystery. Besides, catechetical instruction can be continued after the reception of the sacrament.
[/quote]
I don't understand why First Communion and Confirmation are not given at the same event in the Latin Rite. They are for adults being received into the Church.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1281901128' post='2157828']
I don't understand why First Communion and Confirmation are not given at the same event in the Latin Rite. They are for adults being received into the Church.
[/quote]
I don't either. Delaying confirmation till late teens is a bit strange.

The traditional order of reception of the holy mysteries of initiation in both East and West is . . . Baptism, Confirmation (Chrismation), Eucharist.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281893186' post='2157789']
The East has a different approach to the mystery of chrismation (confirmation). Babies are chrismated (confirmed) right after they are baptized.
[/quote]


[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281899639' post='2157818']
More than ever I think young people need the grace of the sacrament of confirmation.
[/quote]


[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281900612' post='2157826']
I think that the Roman Church should consider lowering the age of confirmation so that it takes place before the reception of first communion.

I would give the sacrament of confirmation to a child even if he does not fully grasp its meaning, because as important as theoretical knowledge is it is not a sufficient reason to withhold the grace of the holy mystery. Besides, catechetical instruction can be continued after the reception of the sacrament.
[/quote]


[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1281901128' post='2157828']
I don't understand why First Communion and Confirmation are not given at the same event in the Latin Rite. They are for adults being received into the Church.
[/quote]


[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281901509' post='2157831']
I don't either. Delaying confirmation till late teens is a bit strange.

The traditional order of reception of the holy mysteries of initiation in both East and West is . . . Baptism, Confirmation (Chrismation), Eucharist.
[/quote]


+ about a trillion...

The Western idea of needing to understand the sacraments of initiation before receiving them is very odd. I am Western and fully support the Western Church, but some of the things such as this are ludicrous.

I didn't even know there was such thing as a Baltimore Catechism by the time I was confirmed, and I was a freshmen in high school. I also didn't know what mortal sin was, the importance of confession, or that the Eucharist was the substantial presence of Christ on earth.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281900612' post='2157826']
I think that the Roman Church should consider lowering the age of confirmation so that it takes place before the reception of first communion.

I would give the sacrament of confirmation to a child even if he does not fully grasp its meaning, because as important as theoretical knowledge is it is not a sufficient reason to withhold the grace of the holy mystery. Besides, catechetical instruction can be continued after the reception of the sacrament.
[/quote]

I would agree with this. I like the way that many of the Eastern Churches preserve the link between Confirmation and Baptism by performing them at the same time when they Baptize infants. I would also consider moving first communion back not so that people could understand it better, since it again is a mystery, but so that people may have a greater respect for the source and summit of our faith. This would also restore the proper order of the Sacraments of Initiation.


[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1281913011' post='2157860']
+ about a trillion...

The Western idea of needing to understand the sacraments of initiation before receiving them is very odd. I am Western and fully support the Western Church, but some of the things such as this are ludicrous.
[/quote]

I think the Church wants receiving the sacraments to grasp the gravity but that most people argue today "that the kids should KNOW what the sacrament is." I think it has to do with the difference between what the Church understands and how the laity the average parish priests say.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

[loveletslive]

wow...i never had to take any kind of quiz/exam or prove to anyone i was ready.