To Sue Or Not To Sue

[dairygirl4u2c]

ty

[Hilde]

I voted no to all, because suing them is not the route I would take. I would open a non-paying buyer case with the police. If the matter isn't solved by the legal instances I might take civil action but suing someone would be the last resort really I think that's more appropriate for other situations than that one.

And their religion is irrelevant.

[dairygirl4u2c]

so it's okay to punish them for criminal charges, but not punish them financially?
and why punish them finanically if only they dont get criminal charges?

this shows some people who disagree with you, plus just an interesting site
http://www.christian-attorney.net/christians_lawsuits.html

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Hilde' timestamp='1281705223' post='2156449']
I voted no to all, because suing them is not the route I would take. I would open a non-paying buyer case with the police. If the matter isn't solved by the legal instances I might take civil action but suing someone would be the last resort really I think that's more appropriate for other situations than that one.

And their religion is irrelevant.
[/quote]
Criminal isn't usually an option in the US or Canada. So long as a contractor puts in one nail, you have to sue them. Doing a bad job, even if it is obviously fraud, is considered civil. Again if a contractor works for you, and you don't pay him, it's not criminal. A contractor can normally put what is called a mechanic's lien on your property, and sue you for non-payment, and turn you over to a collection agency. We fought a Revolutionary War to rid ourselves of debtor's prisons.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote]Scenario 3 in Dairygirl's poll: a friend says he'll pay you if you repair his house. he doesn't pay you, and you're out the costs and labor. he says he's not your friend any more for asking for the money, and hasn't talked to you for a couple years due to it.[/quote]

My philosophy professor and I discussed friendship one time and he gave the wise advice that one should only lend money to family or friends that one is prepared to never seeing again. I think the same principle applies for the friend scenario.

[Hilde]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1281718498' post='2156545']
Criminal isn't usually an option in the US or Canada. So long as a contractor puts in one nail, you have to sue them. Doing a bad job, even if it is obviously fraud, is considered civil. Again if a contractor works for you, and you don't pay him, it's not criminal. A contractor can normally put what is called a mechanic's lien on your property, and sue you for non-payment, and turn you over to a collection agency. We fought a Revolutionary War to rid ourselves of debtor's prisons.
[/quote]OK, but that's not how I would do it over here. Suing someone is not that normal here. They have sort of dined and dashed construction style in this scenario, and that's a crime.

[CatherineM]

I agree it is a crime. Problem is that it happens so often here, it would clog the jails even worse than they are now. People give strangers thousands of dollars and basically cross their fingers.

[CatherineM]

One of the problems we face with contractors here that you may not in Europe, is that tradesmen aren't valued as true craftsmen. Plumbers make more money than lawyers in some people here because of a shortage. It used to be respectable to get dirty for a living here, but now everyone is expected to go to college and study computers or business. Only people with no other options go into the trades rather than how it used to be where it was lovingly handed down father to son.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1281797626' post='2157140']
One of the problems we face with contractors here that you may not in Europe, is that tradesmen aren't valued as true craftsmen. Plumbers make more money than lawyers in some people here because of a shortage. It used to be respectable to get dirty for a living here, but now everyone is expected to go to college and study computers or business. Only people with no other options go into the trades rather than how it used to be where it was lovingly handed down father to son.
[/quote]
That is a good point. So do you think that if we had more cultural respect for people in trades, there would be less trouble with fraud?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Terra Firma' timestamp='1281804635' post='2157238']
That is a good point. So do you think that if we had more cultural respect for people in trades, there would be less trouble with fraud?
[/quote]
Competent contractors, who take real pride in their work, don't have a need to defraud anyone. They make good livings without having to be crooks. We get competent contractors through decent tech training and apprenticeship. We need to value the trades enough to sponsor scholarships to real trade schools, not those tech schools who are just after student loan money and don't care about anyone graduating. We need school counselors whose job bonuses don't depend on how many of their students get accepted to college. We need parents who brag about their son learning how to lay tile as much as they do about their daughter in law school. Michelangelo was a craftsman. Leonardo's day job was building siege weapons. George Washington was a surveyor. Paul Revere was a silversmith in a time when that mostly meant making pewter mugs and plates for everyday use. I just find it sad that a man who works on an antique roadster on the weekends is envied, while a man who fixes our cars so we can get to and from work is pitied.

[mommas_boy]

I say that we should Shannon instead.

[dairygirl4u2c]

1. so 'turn the other cheek'... are the people here taking that to mean, as a good rule of thum, for more trivial things?
how does a person apply that?

2. what if they thought you didn't deserve to be paid, and you insisted they do. 'do unto others', 'the measure you give will be meausred unto you'. are you willing to take whatever karma pushes back at you, when you insist on your way?

[Mercy me]

I had typed out my answer when I decided to read what others wrote. And Catherine already answered mechanics lien and the further steps. Of course she is right.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Terra Firma' timestamp='1281804635' post='2157238']
That is a good point. So do you think that if we had more cultural respect for people in trades, there would be less trouble with fraud?
[/quote]
Absolutely. It's a basic cultural valuation of people's worth. If Society values fixing a toilet as a consequence if you fail at achieving an office/corporate/AC job, then there is no value to the trade/craft. Only "stupid" people can take pride in being a societal failure. I work in a 'trade' industry where an average person with below average intelligence but willingness to work hard is paid more than a teacher. With 15% unemployment in my County, it's almost impossible to hire someone at $10/hr with FREE medical insurance to start with the realistic opportunity to make $45 k + within five years. People of above average skill, work ethic, and drive make almost twice that.