Bible Code

[ironmonk]

Saw a really cool thing on the history channel last night on the bible code again. The whole bible code idea come up back in 1200 AD. Then in the 1700's, someone found a basic code.

The whole bible code is not to see the future. It is the 'signature of God'. Showing proof of God.

The guy that did it proved it. It had nothing to do with algarithems. It had to do with for example, taking every 5th letter and and seeing what it spelled.

They ran every Rabbi's name and date of death and birth and all of them came up. When they came up the name and dates were in the same "paragraph" area (I'm calling it paragraph for lack of a better term).

There is no complex math involved, it's simple 'leap frog'. It definitly shows that God is real. This is a great tool to show the atheistic person. This is a great tool to help strengthen the faith.

I got the software and it's is pretty cool.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[NewReformation]

I've heard that objective scientists have checked it out and found it to be a bunch of hooey.

I can do it with most any book and get some interesting results.

[Iacobus]

Try it with Moby Johnsonville brat. You get equal results. It is mere problablity and stats, take a book as long as the Bible and serach for things and you will find them.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='NewReformation' date='Apr 16 2004, 04:43 PM'] I've heard that objective scientists have checked it out and found it to be a bunch of hooey.

I can do it with most any book and get some interesting results. [/quote]
It's not hoaky, and you've heard wrong.

You can't do it with every book. Maybe you should see the show and listen to what they have to say before you make a decission, that would be the smart thing to do.

Small Example:

a b c a b a b c a b w
a c e a d a b c a b e
a b w z t a b c a b r
k u p k y a b c a b e
d v b r y a b c a b e
d v b r y a b c a b e
a b w z t a b c a b w
a b w z t a b c a b w
a b w z t a b c a b e
a b w z t a b c a b p

If we took every fifth letter in the above block and it spelled a name and dates were right next to in by taking ever 3rd letter, one time in the bible would be a coincidence... but being able to do it with EVERY Rabbi that lived with their birth dates and death dates all within that little block, it's not coincidence - something that complex DOES NOT happen at random. It only takes a little logic to figure that out... to deny it would be lying to oneself... to deny it without giving it thought and listening to both sides would be foolish. Much like many anti-Catholics deny that I know anything about the Catholic Church teachings.

Edited April 16, 2004 by ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Apr 16 2004, 04:51 PM'] Try it with Moby Johnsonville brat. You get equal results. It is mere problablity and stats, take a book as long as the Bible and serach for things and you will find them. [/quote]

Said the man who hasn't looked.

Edited April 16, 2004 by ironmonk

[NewReformation]

Actually, I have looked. I've been over both sides of the issue. I'll agree that you can find many things in there. If you're looking for those things.

[ironmonk]

For sake of space, I'm not posting the whole article... the article is VERY interesting for those who wish to become educated on it.



[url="http://www.letusreason.org/Current3.htm"]http://www.letusreason.org/Current3.htm[/url]

[quote]Statistically Rips can, by mathematical formulas determine whether the ELS words extracted from the Bible by computer are only random coincidences or can be statistically proven to be deliberately encoded by a Higher Power or intelligence. Mathematically, the odds are so small for it to "just happen". He states theoretically there is no limit to the amount of information that could be encoded. At least 10 or 20 billion combinations and permutations are possible. If you start from 1 and never stop day and night, it will take you 100 years to count up to 3 billion. "And he claims that is only the first and crudest level "we don’t have a powerful enough mathematical model to reach it" It is probably less of a crossword puzzle and more like a hologram."

Witztum and Rips enlisted the help of Yoav Rosenberg who created the computer program that could search the letters of the Torah for hidden codes. Together they began to make what seemed to be astonishing discoveries of hidden information which could never have been extracted until this generation--with the aid of a computer. In their now famous experiment, they took a sample of 34 renowned Rabbis and wrote out their names, dates of birth or death, taking the information from the Encyclopedia of Great Men in Israel, for the sake of uniformity and objectivity.

What their computer turned out for them stunned them. It found the names of all 34 Rabbis plus their date of birth and/or death encoded in the letters of the Torah. They took a second list of 32 Rabbis, and performed the test again. Similar results. They used a copy of War and Peace, which is of similar length, as a control text and attempted to find the same Rabbis encoded there. Negative results.

According to Drosnin, in the Rips-Witztum experiment the odds for finding the information on the Rabbis by random chance was I in 1,000,000. (Ibid. p22) Drosnin interviewed Israel's most famous mathematician, Robert J. Aumann, who is a member of both the Israeli and the U.S. National Academy of Science. Aumann reported, "The science is impeccable. Rips' results are wildly significant, beyond anything usually seen in science. I've read his material thoroughly, and the results are straightforward and clear. Statistically it is far beyond what is normally required. "Rips' results are significant at least at the level of 1 in 100,000. You just don't see results like that in ordinary scientific experiments. It's very important to treat this like any other scientific experiment-very cold, very methodical. You test it, and you look at the results." (Ibid., p. 43-44)

[/quote]


I believe it is the signature of God. I'm not one to believe something on a whim. The evidence is overwhelming. I have not seen a single reason to believe that God did not leave a 'signature' in the words that He gave Moses.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Norseman82]

Was that the same show that implied that the world would end when a comet or asteroid crashes into the earth in 2010 or 2012?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 16 2004, 07:22 PM'] For sake of space, I'm not posting the whole article... the article is VERY interesting for those who wish to become educated on it.



[url="http://www.letusreason.org/Current3.htm"]http://www.letusreason.org/Current3.htm[/url]




I believe it is the signature of God. I'm not one to believe something on a whim. The evidence is overwhelming. I have not seen a single reason to believe that God did not leave a 'signature' in the words that He gave Moses.


God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
THe Torah wasn't written down by Moses, it was spoken to Moses. It wasn't written dowm til centuries later.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 17 2004, 04:02 AM']THe Torah wasn't written down by Moses, it was spoken to Moses. It wasn't written dowm til centuries later.[/quote]
Did I write "written down"?

No, but it was.
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14779c.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14779c.htm[/url]
[quote name='New Advent']The Old Synagogue and the Talmud firmly maintain the Mosaic authorship of the Torah, but doubts are entertained regarding a number of passages. In "Baba bathra" 15e only the last eight verses of Deuteronomy, which speak of the death and burial of Moses, are assigned to another author. On the other hand Simeon (loc. cit.) teaches, referring to Deut., xxxi, 26, that these verses were also written by Moses under Divine direction (cf. also Josephus, "Antiq Jud.", IV, viii, 48).[/quote]

If God wanted to put a code, He can put a code.

To disbelieve without discerning the facts that are giving and applying a little logic is foolish.

The "code" is not a way to tell the future... it's a signature to show that God inspired it or to say a little proof that they may need to help believe in the Lord... There are to many things for it to be random. It is far to complex.

With God all things are possible. I would think Catholics, with so many real miracles, would at least see the possibility of it before they scream 'hoaky'.

The facts that there are so many matches that cross each other or next to each other show complexity. Not everything found will be legit. Things such as names and dates next to each other have to be legit because it is impossible for that to happen at random... it is to complex.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Brother Adam]

Ironmonk, what do you think of the bestseller "The Divinci Code"?

[ericLTcore]

ironmonk, as a new user, I feel the need to first state that I respect a lot of what you have written on the various threads on this board, but I'm not sure of your logic in this particular thread.

Which translation of the Bible was used for this example? What are the odds that one word in your so-called "paragraph" was mistranslated from the original texts? I have to agree with the others that these "findings" are common in many works, including novels, music, and art.

Beware of turning your search for Truth into a numerology game or a scientific hypothesis; while the findings are certainly interesting, they may be straying from the Truth of the Church.

[XIX]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Apr 17 2004, 12:06 AM'] Was that the same show that implied that the world would end when a comet or asteroid crashes into the earth in 2010 or 2012? [/quote]
2012 World Series:

Boston Red Sox vs. Chicago Cubs.

:shootme:

j/k j/k

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 17 2004, 10:26 AM'] Ironmonk, what do you think of the bestseller "The Divinci Code"? [/quote]
I haven't read the book.


God Bless,
ironmonk




[quote]ironmonk, as a new user, I feel the need to first state that I respect a lot of what you have written on the various threads on this board, but I'm not sure of your logic in this particular thread.

Which translation of the Bible was used for this example? What are the odds that one word in your so-called "paragraph" was mistranslated from the original texts? I have to agree with the others that these "findings" are common in many works, including novels, music, and art.

Beware of turning your search for Truth into a numerology game or a scientific hypothesis; while the findings are certainly interesting, they may be straying from the Truth of the Church. [/quote]

The Hebrew text of the Torah.

The Torah was originally written in Hebrew. Then about 293 BC, translated into the Septuagint, which was Greek - the common written language. Then in 90 AD back to Hebrew with the Massorah.

The Torah is in all versions (the first five books).

I'm not searching. I have truth.

The same things cannot be found in every writing. There might be one or two things found, but not two things next to each other that are significant to each other. Never would there be dozens.

My logic is sound... I have a tested IQ of 147

The bible code is nothing more than further proof that there is God... a tool to win skeptics... a hug for the faithful. It is not straying from the truth of the Church... if anything it builds up the Church.

Some combinations can be chalked up to coincidence, others cannot, or they would have been able to do the same thing with War and Peace or any other book for that matter... The math is simple... it's not a complex mathematical computation... It's not an algorithm - there is only one step... it's playing leapfrog with letters. Too many words and dates that are right next to each other for it to be coincidence.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Quietfire]

I have read both the Bible Code and the Bible Code II ,
Ironmonk is correct in stating that the names of the rabbis were all found within it.(the Bible Code is currently only used on the Torah)
The Torah does not contain any versicules and therefore it is much easier to apply the 'code' that Eli Rips has devised. Mr. Rips is an amazing mathematician.

There is work underway to do the same with the New Testament. Remove all Chapters and verses and this way it is not only prepared the same as the original Torah but then the 'code' can be tested on it.

The problem is, and question, is which translation of the New Testament.
You realize that no matter which is used, there will be such fierce critisism on it that most will debuke it for that.

I was pretty much into the book, I did have some problems when it discussed something in Book II about alien encounters. The author states that alien doesnt necessarilly mean 'little green men' ( thats what I was thinking) but alien could possibly mean someone or something physically unknown to us.

Still it raises alot of questions.
Just wanted to jump in and back up Ironmonk on this one.
But want to add that to read it with an open mind and discuss the same way.

thanks. and many blessings to all.


P.S. Mr Desdin does not specifically state as to what will happen, as far as 'the end of the world', but he does give dates to watch for. 2006 for one, and 2010 for another (I cant remember but he may have also given 2004)
again, nothing specific, since he wouldnt know what to look for. He has tested with 'nuclear holocaust' and such, but one should read the book to find this info out for themselves.
Unfortunately, when he checked in reference to September 11, 2001, it was there. Too bad for so many thousands that it could not have been checked earlier.
I no longer have either copy of these books in my possession, since they get passed around. So please excuse me if I make a bo-boo here or there. I read the second book while on my first flight after Sept. 11. (yeah, not the best read!!!)

thanks all.

Edited April 18, 2004 by Quietfire