Should Openly Gay People Be Allowed To Serve In The Military?

[Hassan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='10 August 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1281453428' post='2155273']
You are the insulting drama queen here.
Again Hassan, this is a catholic website, so if you don't like hearing about catholic teaching, post elsewhere. My private catholic views are my public catholic views in the real world, and I use them to decide who and what I vote for, and I have a perfect right to state them and see them enacted in law in the real world. Get over it.
[/quote]

if you took my saying that you were being a drama queen as an insult then I apologize.
Yes, I know this is a catholic website. I don't have any problem with you all talking about how much sodomy angers god. Nowhere did I ask you to stop posting catholic viewpoints. So please stop pretending that I have. This is the second time you have done this. Yes, I do have a problem with you trying to force your baseless beliefs on other people. I have to many gay friends just trying to leave their lives who shouldn't have to deal with all that croutons they have to put up with. This does make me angry, butI will try to get over how much it irks me that you and others would do something so irresponsible. What helps is when I consider that your side is losing on this issue on every front: your public support dwindling, the military repudiating your odd fixation on the private sexual acts of soldiers, the courts smacking down that laws you try to vote in. These facts do make me feel a little better. Gay rights are being established and they are only gaining momentum.

The initial apology was sincere. As I have thought about it while writing this I do see the drama queen comment was unnecessary and uncalled for.

[Semper Catholic]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 August 2010 - 06:39 PM' timestamp='1281483573' post='2155530']
Strong moral standards. Not what I think about when I've read any books written by veterans of foreign wars. Whether it was whoring it up, getting hammered at every available opportunity, thieving, killing people indiscriminately and for fun, a lust for killing, taking souvenirs from the dead, including femurs, every account by those who were there reveal those disgusting vices as a way of life. It's not hyperbole or exaggeration. Read them for yourself. "A Rumor of War," by Philip Caputo. "Before the Dawn," by Mickey Block. "Point Man," by James Watson and Kevin Dockery. "Nam," by Matt Baker. "The Brass Ring," by Bill Mauldin. "A Rifleman Went to War," by H.M. McBride. "Dead Center" by Ed Kugler. Just a drop in the bucket of a whole pile of works out there.

Many of the "ethically challenged" folks I've personally met have been a strong indication that the standards aren't particularly high. As far as I know, the Marine Corps still "prays for war."

And most of them wrote that they joined because their lives were going nowhere, or to pursue the glory of war. Not one of the above listed because "The country was in harm's way." Only after they get back does anyone hear the "I was fighting for your freedom" nonsense.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


[img]http://memegenerator.net/Liberal-Douche-Garofalo/ImageMacro/1998101/LargeThumbnail.jpg?instanceText=Military-Indurstrial-Complex-and-stuff-and-some-other-stuff[/img]

[Nihil Obstat]

Times like these I wish we still had -1s to give away.

[ThePenciledOne]

Funny that no one could really argue with Stern's last statement, yet only post images that supposedly refute him instead....

Edited August 11, 2010 by ThePenciledOne

[Semper Catholic]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='10 August 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1281501351' post='2155642']
Funny that no one could really argue with Stern's last statement, yet only post images that supposedly refute him instead....


[/quote]

Because he's an [mod]personal attack - MIKolbe[/mod]. It's like arguing with Bill O'Reilly, you can dispute him all you want but it's not going to change his mind no matter how absurdly wrong he is, you're just wasting his time.

Good to know some emo kid is licking up all his scraps though.

[Semper Catholic]

Found a picture of Sternhauser:

Also nice attempted thread jack brah

[img]http://files.dropbox.com/u/1423438/Pictures/CoolFaceSpider.jpg[/img]

[Jesus_lol]

Oi, when did you take a picture of my brother? sneaking into his house?

[Hilde]

If I had 8 legs I bet I could type really fast.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='11 August 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1281502840' post='2155648']
Because he's an [mod]personal attack - MIKolbe[/mod]. It's like arguing with Bill O'Reilly, you can dispute him all you want but it's not going to change his mind no matter how absurdly wrong he is, you're just wasting his time.

Good to know some emo kid is licking up all his scraps though.
[/quote]
Wah. Nobody respects my macho posturing so instead I'm going to take the intellectually vapid way out and insult everyone who disagrees with me. Wah.

Please stop that.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='11 August 2010 - 02:28 AM' timestamp='1281508086' post='2155666']
Wah. Nobody respects my macho posturing so instead I'm going to take the intellectually vapid way out and insult everyone who disagrees with me. Wah.

Please stop that.
[/quote]

Call me crazy but what Stern said about those in military service was far more insulting. It painted with a wide brush, while Semper insulted only two people. Again call me crazy but in comparison, both are bad but one is worse.

Edited August 11, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Hilde]

Man you guys are up late.

This too shall pass.

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 August 2010 - 08:39 PM' timestamp='1281483573' post='2155530']
As far as I know, the Marine Corps still "prays for war."
[/quote]

Yeah, okay.
...and recruits have to kill a puppy to graduate boot camp.

They must have left that prayer out of the NAVMC 2765.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Maximilianus

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='11 August 2010 - 01:33 AM' timestamp='1281508423' post='2155667']
Call me crazy but what Stern said about those in military service was far more insulting. It painted with a wide brush, while Semper insulted only two people. Again call me crazy but in comparison, both are bad but one is worse.
[/quote]
Stern is willing to make rational arguments to back up everything he says, for which I have a lot of respect regardless of what I think of his conclusions.

[Socrates]

[quote name='apparently' date='10 August 2010 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1281482465' post='2155521']

Stalin, get real Stalin???????????????????????????????????????[/quote]
You know, them darned right-wing conservatives who oppose homosexuality are . . . COMMIES!

(Geez, and the Left thinks McCarthy was crazy!)

[quote]Odd, that some people equate the Army gay ban on Catholics. As far as I know Catholic doctrine has little to do with the official US Army rules and regulations. There is however a large numbers of practicing Catholics among the ranks of our military services, family men and woman with strong moral standards and principles…

The army is all volunteer, the gay issues are well know and I hardly believe that any young (adult) recruit would be unaware of the standards before signing up.
[/quote]
Homosexuality has been banned in the U.S. armed forces since the very beginning, in 1776.
It's ridiculous how the bleeding hearts are acting like wanting to keep a policy that's been around in our country for over two centuries represents some horrible Papist Plot to overthrow our American way of life and institute a Catholic Theocracy. (Or is it a Communist/Papist Plot?)
The "weird Catholic sexual morals" were until recent decades taken for granted by almost everyone in this country. Wanting to preserve some vestige of them hardly presents some terrible threat to American ideals.

Also,there are plenty of people in the military, and with military experience, who support keeping the ban on homosexuals in the military. See this story about a petition from over 1000 retired military officers, including a former Commandant of the Marine Corps: [url="http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/45911"]Retired Military Officers Say Lifting Ban on Homosexuals Would ‘Eventually Break’ Military[/url]. I recall back in the Clinton years, the Commandant at the time publicly stating that he would rather resign than see the ban on homosexuality be lifted. I also know plenty of Marines who are against allowing homosexuals.

Claiming that the only people who oppose lifting the ban on homosexuals are civilians with no military experience who don't know what they're talking about is simply false.

[Socrates]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='02 August 2010 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1280779508' post='2151044']
Don't Ask, Don't Tell should be repealed. Bring back the complete ban.

"One of the fundamental traits of the conservative attitude is a fear of change, a timid distrust of the new as such, while the liberal (today I call it "libertarian") position is based on courage ... to let change run its course even if we cannot predict where it will lead ... ."

Sounds irresponsible. I hope Stossel doesn't think this is an enlightened thought.
[/quote]
Conservatives (in their truest form) believe that moral principles are eternal and unchanging - conservative philosopher Russell Kirk said that belief in an "enduring moral order" is the first principle of conservatism.

From Kirk's 10 Conservative Principles:[quote][b]First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order.[/b] That order is made for man, and man is made for it: human nature is a constant, and moral truths are permanent.

This word order signifies harmony. There are two aspects or types of order: the inner order of the soul, and the outer order of the commonwealth. Twenty-five centuries ago, Plato taught this doctrine, but even the educated nowadays find it difficult to understand. The problem of order has been a principal concern of conservatives ever since conservative became a term of politics.

Our twentieth-century world has experienced the hideous consequences of the collapse of belief in a moral order. Like the atrocities and disasters of Greece in the fifth century before Christ, the ruin of great nations in our century shows us the pit into which fall societies that mistake clever self-interest, or ingenious social controls, for pleasing alternatives to an oldfangled moral order.

It has been said by liberal intellectuals that the conservative believes all social questions, at heart, to be questions of private morality. Properly understood, this statement is quite true. A society in which men and women are governed by belief in an enduring moral order, by a strong sense of right and wrong, by personal convictions about justice and honor, will be a good society—whatever political machinery it may utilize; while a society in which men and women are morally adrift, ignorant of norms, and intent chiefly upon gratification of appetites, will be a bad society—no matter how many people vote and no matter how liberal its formal constitution may be.
[/quote]

The moral relativism of liberals, which thinks that moral principles should constantly change with the fashions is hardly courageous.
Today, I'd say it requires more courage to stand up for an enduring moral order, while liberals simply just spinelessly blow along with whatever the popular pc fads of the time happen to be.