Should Openly Gay People Be Allowed To Serve In The Military?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hassan' date='09 August 2010 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1281398714' post='2154946']


If not, stop trying to shove your unverifiable and faith based sexual morals down other people's throats.
[/quote]
Hassan this is a catholic website, so if you don't like my faith -based morals, think about your options, because I'm not shutting up and I'm not leaving.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 August 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1281412516' post='2155021']
Hassan this is a catholic website, so if you don't like my faith -based morals, think about your options, because I'm not shutting up and I'm not leaving.
[/quote]

If you look at my profile picture you will see that it is a statue of Charlemagne. We all know Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) was the Great King who seperated Church and State. The big question is...should Gay people be allowed to Serve in the Military? I think most Christians agree that Homosexuallity is wrong. While at the same time the bible clearly states that God granted us Free Will. Should laws that our government creates take this Free Will away from people? I dont believe so. I dont believe that people should oppress other people for the way they live their lives. Nobody is perfect. If you think about it...homosexuality is no different than fornication and many other sexual sins. Yet there is this big spot light on homosexuality. I think it is an individuals responsibility to learn about who God is and his image of us. Im sure many gay affirming individuals have heard that homosexuality is a sin. Yet they choose to continue the lifestyle. Its not always the governments responsibility to hem people up or prevent them from doing things that are morally wrong. Its the individuals responsibility to learn about God, and walk the path that he lays out for us.

Edited August 10, 2010 by infinitelord1

[Hassan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 August 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1281412516' post='2155021']
Hassan this is a catholic website, so if you don't like my faith -based morals, think about your options, because I'm not shutting up and I'm not leaving.
[/quote]


I never asked you to shut up or to leave. Stop being a drama queen. I specifically said that only the first sex sentences were directed towards you personally. There was nothing unclear about that. As a general comment I said that religious people (including you, yes) need to stop trying to shove their weird sexual morals down other people's throats. Talk about how wicked sodomy is on this website all you want. Believe in the wickedness of sodomy and pre-martial sex all you want. But please, in the real world, where your political beliefs actually matter, stop trying to force your private, baseless beliefs on other people.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hassan' date='10 August 2010 - 08:14 AM' timestamp='1281438846' post='2155140']
I never asked you to shut up or to leave. Stop being a drama queen. I specifically said that only the first sex sentences were directed towards you personally. There was nothing unclear about that. As a general comment I said that religious people (including you, yes) need to stop trying to shove their weird sexual morals down other people's throats. Talk about how wicked sodomy is on this website all you want. Believe in the wickedness of sodomy and pre-martial sex all you want. But please, in the real world, where your political beliefs actually matter, stop trying to force your private, baseless beliefs on other people.
[/quote]
You are the insulting drama queen here.
Again Hassan, this is a catholic website, so if you don't like hearing about catholic teaching, post elsewhere. My private catholic views are my public catholic views in the real world, and I use them to decide who and what I vote for, and I have a perfect right to state them and see them enacted in law in the real world. Get over it.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='10 August 2010 - 02:30 AM' timestamp='1281418205' post='2155080']
If you look at my profile picture you will see that it is a statue of Charlemagne. We all know Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) was the Great King who seperated Church and State. The big question is...should Gay people be allowed to Serve in the Military? I think most Christians agree that Homosexuallity is wrong. While at the same time the bible clearly states that God granted us Free Will. Should laws that our government creates take this Free Will away from people? I dont believe so. I dont believe that people should oppress other people for the way they live their lives. Nobody is perfect. If you think about it...homosexuality is no different than fornication and many other sexual sins. Yet there is this big spot light on homosexuality. I think it is an individuals responsibility to learn about who God is and his image of us. Im sure many gay affirming individuals have heard that homosexuality is a sin. Yet they choose to continue the lifestyle. Its not always the governments responsibility to hem people up or prevent them from doing things that are morally wrong. Its the individuals responsibility to learn about God, and walk the path that he lays out for us.
[/quote]
For the most part I agree.
If the military were a social club, it really wouldn't matter. But military rules of conduct are for a closed society where the individual is responsible for himself and others in life and death situations. There are very strict rules of conduct and they are enforced. My daughter is currently testifying in a court martial proceedings right now concerning someones behavior.

[Socrates]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='10 August 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1281453428' post='2155273']
You are the insulting drama queen here.
Again Hassan, this is a catholic website, so if you don't like hearing about catholic teaching, post elsewhere. My private catholic views are my public catholic views in the real world, and I use them to decide who and what I vote for, and I have a perfect right to state them and see them enacted in law in the real world. Get over it.
[/quote]
Amen!

I will continue to vote and speak out publicly on political matters according to my moral beliefs, whether the atheists and leftists like it or not, and I would fight to the death to defend the right of others to do so. If the atheists don't like it, too flippin' bad for them. If they don't want "religious" moral beliefs to be heard in the public sphere, they can ship to North Korea.

[Semper Catholic]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='10 August 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1281453809' post='2155279']
For the most part I agree.
If the military were a social club, it really wouldn't matter. But military rules of conduct are for a closed society where the individual is responsible for himself and others in life and death situations. There are very strict rules of conduct and they are enforced. My daughter is currently testifying in a court martial proceedings right now concerning someones behavior.
[/quote]

Rules that are broken repeatedly by straight men and women.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='10 August 2010 - 02:54 PM' timestamp='1281462883' post='2155366']
Rules that are broken repeatedly by straight men and women.
[/quote]
Absolutely. But I can't believe this would be an improvement.

[Semper Catholic]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='10 August 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1281469265' post='2155414']
Absolutely. But I can't believe this would be an improvement.
[/quote]

Doing the right thing doesn't always have the most preferable outcomes.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Hassan' date='10 August 2010 - 07:14 AM' timestamp='1281438846' post='2155140']
I never asked you to shut up or to leave. Stop being a drama queen. I specifically said that only the first sex sentences were directed towards you personally. There was nothing unclear about that. As a general comment I said that religious people (including you, yes) need to stop trying to shove their weird sexual morals down other people's throats. Talk about how wicked sodomy is on this website all you want. Believe in the wickedness of sodomy and pre-martial sex all you want. But please, in the real world, where your political beliefs actually matter, stop trying to force your private, baseless beliefs on other people.
[/quote]

Non-religious people (including you, yes) need to stop trying to shove their weird sexual morals down other people's throats too.

[sixpence]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='03 August 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1280888231' post='2151815']

I think it would be good for the US military to expel all immoral people. all the gays, drunks, guys who talk about the girl back home they sleep with, liars, blasphemers, adulterers, guys/girls that lust, everyone.

then the canadian army could walk through, kill the 3 soldiers who managed to beat the morality lie detector test, and then we get to have hawaii and alaska!
[/quote]

[add]

[quote name='Hassan' date='07 August 2010 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1281209233' post='2153692']
Stalinism purged the USSR of a huge portion of the intellectual class. The leadership was subsequently filled with ethnic Russians of 'proletariat' backgrounds. That is, undereducated peasants. This, and Stalins' own socially conservative values, a product of his strict Orthodox upbringing and time in the seminary, is what mainly drove the backlash against the sexual freedom encouraged in the USSR during the earliest years of the revolution. The sexual prudishness of the Worker's Paradise was not specific to homosexuals and was the product of an inept theorist's sociological intuitions. And here we see the real link between the anti-homosexuality laws of the USSR and the crusade of the religious-right. Both view it as perfectly reasonable to attack the freedoms of a subset of their population based on superstition and deference to an arbitrary authority. The survival of the Soviet Union was never threatened by homosexuality. In fact the bi-sexual Eisenstein (almost swept up in the purges for his sexual adventures) contributed substantially to the war effort against fascism by producing propaganda films for the regime to rally popular support against Germany. Do you really want to start justifying your intrusions into the personal lives of your fellow citizens on the grounds that, 'well, Stalin did it'?
[/quote]


Stalin, get real Stalin???????????????????????????????????????

Odd, that some people equate the Army gay ban on Catholics. As far as I know Catholic doctrine has little to do with the official US Army rules and regulations. There is however a large numbers of practicing Catholics among the ranks of our military services, family men and woman with strong moral standards and principles…

The army is all volunteer, the gay issues are well know and I hardly believe that any young (adult) recruit would be unaware of the standards before signing up.

Edited August 10, 2010 by apparently

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='apparently' date='10 August 2010 - 06:21 PM' timestamp='1281482465' post='2155521']

Stalin, get real

Odd, that some people equate the Army gay ban on catholics. As far as I know Catholic doctrine has littleto do with the official US Army rules and regulations. There is however a large numbers of practicingCatholics among the ranks of our military services, family men and woman with strongmoral standards…

The army is all volunteer, the gay issues are well know and Ihardly believe that any young recruit would be unaware of the standards beforesigning up.


[/quote]

Strong moral standards. Not what I think about when I've read any books written by veterans of foreign wars. Whether it was whoring it up, getting hammered at every available opportunity, thieving, killing people indiscriminately and for fun, a lust for killing, taking souvenirs from the dead, including femurs, every account by those who were there reveal those disgusting vices as a way of life. It's not hyperbole or exaggeration. Read them for yourself. "A Rumor of War," by Philip Caputo. "Before the Dawn," by Mickey Block. "Point Man," by James Watson and Kevin Dockery. "Nam," by Matt Baker. "The Brass Ring," by Bill Mauldin. "A Rifleman Went to War," by H.M. McBride. "Dead Center" by Ed Kugler. Just a drop in the bucket of a whole pile of works out there.

Many of the "ethically challenged" folks I've personally met have been a strong indication that the standards aren't particularly high. As far as I know, the Marine Corps still "prays for war."

And most of them wrote that they joined because their lives were going nowhere, or to pursue the glory of war. Not one of the above listed because "The country was in harm's way." Only after they get back does anyone hear the "I was fighting for your freedom" nonsense.

~Sternhauser

Edited August 10, 2010 by Sternhauser

[add]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 August 2010 - 08:39 PM' timestamp='1281483573' post='2155530']
Strong moral standards. Not what I think about when I've read any books written by veterans of foreign wars. Whether it was whoring it up, getting hammered at every available opportunity, thieving, killing people indiscriminately and for fun, a lust for killing, taking souvenirs from the dead, including femurs, every account by those who were there reveal those disgusting vices as a way of life. It's not hyperbole or exaggeration. Read them for yourself. "A Rumor of War," by Philip Caputo. "Before the Dawn," by Mickey Block. "Point Man," by James Watson and Kevin Dockery. "Nam," by Matt Baker. "The Brass Ring," by Bill Mauldin. "A Rifleman Went to War," by H.M. McBride. "Dead Center" by Ed Kugler. Just a drop in the bucket of a whole pile of works out there.

Many of the "ethically challenged" folks I've personally met have been a strong indication that the standards aren't particularly high. As far as I know, the Marine Corps still "prays for war."

And most of them wrote that they joined because their lives were going nowhere, or to pursue the glory of war. Not one of the above listed because "The country was in harm's way." Only after they get back does anyone hear the "I was fighting for your freedom" nonsense.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


[img]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/wisper3/22353_321861166916_569156916_4092118_3247723_n.jpg[/img]

Edited August 10, 2010 by apparently

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 August 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1281479917' post='2155488']
Non-religious people (including you, yes) need to stop trying to shove their weird sexual morals down other people's throats too.
[/quote]

I don't remember voting for any laws that force Catholics to use birth control.