Freedom In Vocations

[ksterling]

Chiara:

You raise a number of different issues here - some of which I've given a great deal of thought to. You have a vocation to religious life or you don't. If you do, you will find that the rewards outweigh the sacrifices. If the converse is true - and I think that's what discernment is all about - you probably don't have a religious vocation and need to discern what other paths you are more inclined to follow. I have 2 sisters who are both married. One of my sisters is divorced and I was present in the delivery room when her son was born. Trust me, the last thing on her mind was a doctor seeing her "not looking her best." The reward of a healthy child brought great happiness to all of us (even in the midst of a messy divorce) and I can tell you for sure, my sister didn't give a fig that it was "undignified." I think you are worrying unnecessarily - neither of my sisters would have chosen not to have their children because of the unpleasant process of birth. As for having one a year, almost no one outside the Duggars does that. I don't want to digress into birth control, but I do a lot of work in my parish and the largest family has 5 kids - most have 2 - so almost no one is following the church's rules on birth control.

As I have discerned a vocation to religious life, I, too have wondered whether I would be able to go through life not having a child of my own. I am lucky in that both my sisters have children so my mom, who is a widow, is not deprived of grandchildren. It would be much harder if I was an only child and my becoming a sister meant that she would have no grandchildren. So we are back to weighing the rewards vesus the sacrifice and whether you find the sacrifice is too difficult. For me, yes, I would have liked to have a baby of my own someday (although I have friends who would tell you that I'm not very maternal.) But I feel like God has called me to religious life and I must trust in him to give me the grace to persevere, even in the face of difficulties. If I can't then maybe I'm mistaken in my vocation. There are many beauties to religious life but I don't think anyone will tell you it's easy and on this particular subject I think it is very difficult. This is one reason why I am searching for a community with strong bonds of sisterhood and women my own age - we can help one another face this and other difficulties of life.

As to the freedom of priests - I kind of agree with you to a point. Priests in orders face the same difficulties as sisters. Diocesan priests face some of the same and more - they don't have the strongs bonds of community to sustain them. My SD has told me on several occasions that he sometimes regrets not having joined an order - he says his life is lonely. I have said on this forum that I worry about being treated like an adult. Here is where I think priests have more freedom, at least in formation. I understand that a postulant can't go calling her friends or emailing them every day. How can you discern a lifetime decision if you are constantly distracted? But I think you should be able to receive letters and write to friends. This is an issue that has made me not consider the Nashville Dominicans.

If you truly are ashamed to have sex or go through childbirth, as you say, I think you have other issues you need to address before you can think about discernment. These are normal human activities given to us by God - no reason for shame. I don't mean to be critical - I just want you to find the path that's right for you and to address the roadblocks that seem to prevent you from doing that. Good luck - I will be praying for you.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='29 July 2010 - 06:07 PM' timestamp='1280423276' post='2149500']
i think it's good to weigh the challenges of each vocation. but i also think that you could state as much in a less offensive manner. when i was pregnant, i didn't think "oh cr[u][/u]ap, what about delivering a baby and having strangers see my privates!" i thought of the joy and privilege of bringing up another soul to love God. don't get me wrong, every mother (eventually) thinks about what's going to happen when she delivers a baby, and gets apprehensive about it. but i would daresay it's not the first thing that comes to a woman's mind.

perhaps i am misunderstanding you. are you still discerning your vocation? do you think that your friendship will remain unchanged if you get married? every friendship is changed when one or both friends get married, have kids, and grow up and mature in life.
[/quote]
Agreed. My husband was laughing at me because during delivery of my daughter, I kept thinking "I'm never doing this again!", then she was born, and she was beautiful, I could seriously get pregnant again right now and be absolutely thrilled (have felt that way for a bit).

Regarding friendships, well, they've changed a lot. My best friend and I are both married now, I have kids, and we live an ocean apart. We do still write on a weekly basis. But that's about all we can do.

I know you usually get to write less often in a convent, but if you've truly been friends that long, you can maintain a friendship that way. No, it isn't the same, but it won't be the same no matter your vocation, IMO.

[quote name='Chiara_' date='29 July 2010 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1280423999' post='2149505']
I apologize if my wording of that offended you. It was really a mini-rant and tact was not my main focus in it. But the gist of it is how I really am feeling. When I thin of marriage it causes me anxiety. It has for years - I remember in fifth grade once I was thinking about how I wanted to have a little red house and a maple syrup shop when I grew up and how I'd want more kids than just 2. But then it struck me as to how I'd get those kids. I figured as I grew up I would be more comfortable with the idea of se x but I'm really not.
[/quote]
If it makes you feel any better, I wasn't comfortable with the idea of sex until I was in a serious relationship with my husband.

[StColette]

[quote name='Chiara_' date='29 July 2010 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1280420649' post='2149483']
Something brought up on another thread, about visiting hours at convents, got me thinking. I just think it's pretty unfair that if I went to a convent, I'd probably lose all my friends. Now, most of them, I'd get over, but I've been best friends with my best friend for 13 years. Our lives are completely intertwined. If I was only able to call her once a month, and sometimes we weren't able to make that for whatever reason, we'd end up losing touch. I know we are supposed to give up everything for Christ, but even Jesus had friends and you could consider St John His best friend. I keep thinking to myself, "if you let your best friend get in the way of your vocation Jesus will take her away from you, so let go of it on your own". But I just can't. I'm not strong enough and frankly I don't WANT to be. On the one hand I love the thought of being the Spouse of Jesus because I fell in love with Him and not with a human male. But if I'm too weak to do this then why do I feel possibly called to it?
[/quote]

"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong" (1 Corinthians 1:27).
2 Corinthians 12:8-10 “But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.”

God chooses the weak and makes them strong. We are all weak in different ways, but we are also called to do the will of God. You have to ask yourself the question of who’s will is more important, your or God’s will. It really and truly comes down to being humble and willing to put what God wants before what you want.

When God has a plan for us often times that plan has sacrifices that we must make for the Lord. Yes, with some (not all religious orders) there is a time as a postulant or a novice that you’re not able to have tons of communication with family and friends. The postulant & novice years for most is a very difficult one, not just because of lack of communication that is allowed. The religious orders want to insure that the postulant or novice is not focusing too much on the worldly things (which include family and friends). In the majority of religious orders that I’m familiar with, once the postulancy and novitiate phases are over there is a lot more communicate and visits allowed.

It still sounds like you’re very unsure as to where God is truly calling you. Yes, you may love the thought of entering the religious life and being the spouse of the Lord, but is that where God is truly calling you?


[quote]
I think it's really unfair how priests have the freedom to call their friends every day if they so chose, but I'll have to give them up. I'm not advocating women priests, as that is moronic, but I am just saying that women's vocational options kind of stink. [/quote]
Priests do not have as much freedom as you think. Diocesan priests do have a lot of freedom with making their own schedules and such, but they rarely get to do as much of their “own thing” as you think. They work 24/7 365. They often don’t have the time to call their friends every day even if they wanted to. Their lives are crammed packed with Masses, confessions, baptisms, weddings, appointments, hospital visits, meetings, councils, etc. They also are moved on a regular basis, without any say.

[quote]
I can a) get married and have to go through a lot of humiliation, pain, and sickness to have children, who I really really want but am afraid of whole pregnancy process.

[/quote]

Not really sure what is humiliating about having children, I’ve had 2 and never felt humiliated.

As for the pain of labor, I don’t remember much of it and what I do remember wasn't that bad. My husband was hurting more than me as he had been pressing his fist into the small of my back for several hours lol

Sickness – this I remember clearly! I was very sick. With my first pregnancy I was in and out of the emergency room because I had a disorder called hyperemesis gravidarum, which pretty much means I threw up about 5 to 10 times a day and lost 10% or more of my body weight. And yes it was difficult and it definitely tried my patience, but my child was worth all of it. When I got pregnant with my second child only 3 ½ months after the first was born everyone kept asking me “I don’t know how you can put yourself through that again” or “Didn’t you learn from the first time”. They failed to understand that God had called me to be a mother and that He had created the child that was within. And I was just as sick with the second as I was with the first. But I would do it all again in a heartbeat.

There isn’t a whole lot that can compare to hearing your child’s heartbeat for the first time, feeling them kick, holding them in your arms, hearing them say “mama” for the first time, etc. It’s the very fact that God has given you such a precious gift that make all the difficult things with pregnancy and parenthood seem minuscule
[quote]
or b) enter a convent, actually get my spiritual life in order which would be great, but I'd lose my best friend. or c) consecrated virginity, meaning I shall have no kids and be very lonely.
I know this is selfish,petty and stupid but I really don't care anymore.
[/quote]

Again, it comes down to what God’s plan is for you, not what your plan is for God.

The one thing I would like to point out is that you should not enter the convent to get your spiritual life in order. That should be in very good order before entering.

I know of just a handful of consecrated virgins, many of which lead very busy lives volunteering, working in hospitals, etc. They definitely aren’t lonely.

As I said before, I would continue with your discernment and really concentrate on what God’s plan is for you and not what your plan is for God.

[vee]

[quote name='Chiara_' date='29 July 2010 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1280420649' post='2149483']
Something brought up on another thread, about visiting hours at convents, got me thinking. I just think it's pretty unfair that if I went to a convent, I'd probably lose all my friends. Now, most of them, I'd get over, but I've been best friends with my best friend for 13 years. Our lives are completely intertwined. If I was only able to call her once a month, and sometimes we weren't able to make that for whatever reason, we'd end up losing touch. I know we are supposed to give up everything for Christ, but even Jesus had friends and you could consider St John His best friend. I keep thinking to myself, "if you let your best friend get in the way of your vocation Jesus will take her away from you, so let go of it on your own". But I just can't. I'm not strong enough and frankly I don't WANT to be. On the one hand I love the thought of being the Spouse of Jesus because I fell in love with Him and not with a human male. But if I'm too weak to do this then why do I feel possibly called to it?

[/quote]

St ignatius says "I must first of all place before my eyes the end for which I have been created, which is to praise God our Lord and to save my soul.". I'd add on the that not just to praise God but to lead others to praise Him as well, and not only to save my own soul but other souls as well. As zunshynn said one doesn't become a religious for anything other than the main task of saving souls. To be a wife and mom means you are particularily entrusted with the salvation of the souls of your husband and children. As a single person your relationships with friends and family should be aimed at their betterment so they may reach heaven. In any state in life there will be suffering but you must offer that to Christ for He will take your prayers and sacrifices and use them for good, to transform the lives of others.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='29 July 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1280425049' post='2149514']
First of all, one should not enter a convent to "get their spiritual life in order". If that's the primary reason someone is attracted to religious life they need to very seriously reevaluate pursuing it. One should enter religious life primarily motivated to save souls, not for the improvement of their own spiritual life. Of course religious are called in a particular way to work on their spiritual life in order to do that, but it can't be the primary motivator.

No matter what vocation a person is living they need to get their spiritual life in order. Simply entering a monastery is not going to make that happen, and it's not the solution or a remedy to problems in one's spiritual life.
[/quote]


Actually, many ancient religious communities did/do have "personal sanctification" as their primary goal.

Many of the Saints entered consecrated life out of a desire to save their own souls.

It is true that "simply entering" a monastery will not heal a person's spiritual life. Entering and living the life well ... that is what will do that.

[Lilllabettt]

Dear Chiara,

I've had feelings similar to yours in regards to communication restrictions in religious life.

One thing that was helpful to me was finding out that there is more than 1 approach to "outside" relationships. I know a Sister in a habit wearing, solemn-vow taking community. She makes "phone dates" so that she can catch up with her college friends. She uses email to keep in touch. She writes as many letters and she likes to whomever she likes. Whether it is for better or worse, her community chooses to make Sisters more responsible for themselves and their own behavior. This Sister friend of mine has to ask herself: am I giving too much time to this? Is this an appropriate amount of contact? etc. etc. There have been times she has felt it would be easier if a Superior told her what to do. But her particular community has chosen this path ....

I guess my point is, different communities embrace different restrictions, so don't rule out a religious vocation just because you have anxiety about a particular restriction ...


On the other hand .....


I was told once that there are two kinds of people who try religious life: those who go in to give, and those who go in to take. Those who go into religious life with a heart ready to make sacrifices have a better go of it than those who go because it will make them happy. If you cultivate a spirit of sacrifice in your daily life, you'll see as you go that it will become easier to make them ...

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='29 July 2010 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1280436486' post='2149620']
I was told once that there are two kinds of people who try religious life: those who go in to give, and those who go in to take. Those who go into religious life with a heart ready to make sacrifices have a better go of it than those who go because it will make them happy. If you cultivate a spirit of sacrifice in your daily life, you'll see as you go that it will become easier to make them ...
[/quote]

The nail just got hit right on the head. The thing is, this is true of life apart from religious vows too.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Chiara_' date='29 July 2010 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1280420649' post='2149483']
Something brought up on another thread, about visiting hours at convents, got me thinking. I just think it's pretty unfair that if I went to a convent, I'd probably lose all my friends. Now, most of them, I'd get over, but I've been best friends with my best friend for 13 years. Our lives are completely intertwined. If I was only able to call her once a month, and sometimes we weren't able to make that for whatever reason, we'd end up losing touch. I know we are supposed to give up everything for Christ, but even Jesus had friends and you could consider St John His best friend. I keep thinking to myself, "if you let your best friend get in the way of your vocation Jesus will take her away from you, so let go of it on your own". But I just can't. I'm not strong enough and frankly I don't WANT to be. On the one hand I love the thought of being the Spouse of Jesus because I fell in love with Him and not with a human male. But if I'm too weak to do this then why do I feel possibly called to it?

I think it's really unfair how priests have the freedom to call their friends every day if they so chose, but I'll have to give them up. I'm not advocating womenpriests, as that is moronic, but I am just saying that women's vocational options kind of stink. I can a) get married and have to go through a lot of humiliation, pain, and sickness to have children, who I really really want but am afraid of whole pregnancy process. or b) enter a convent, actually get my spiritual life in order which would be great, but I'd lose my best friend. or c) consecrated virginity, meaning I shall have no kids and be very lonely.
I know this is selfish,petty and stupid but I really don't care anymore.
[/quote]

I don't think your concerns are selfish, petty, and stupid. If you have concerns, it's much better to look them in the face, than to deny them because we are "supposed to be more mature than that." Maybe we are supposed to be mature all the time, but I don't know anyone who is mature every minute of their life.

You've brought up a couple of different concerns. You've gotten some excellent replies to your post, so I will try not to repeat too much of what others have said, and try to add a little from my own experiences.

First your close friendship. You didn't say how old you are, but I'm going to guess under 21, or younger. (If I'm wrong, please forgive me.) I don't know if others had this experience, but when I was in high school, I felt like I needed to spend a lot of time on the phone and talk to my friends constantly. (I'm giving away my age a little by confessing that, when I was in high school there were no cellphones, no email, no text messaging etc.--but close friends still generally felt like they had to talk to each other constantly.) That changed when I went away to college. Because we do have cellphones, text messaging, email, etc., now I think this goes on longer for many people--well into adulthood.

But, as others have said, over the years, things happen to our close friendships to change them. We get a boyfriend and want to spend time with him--and eventually we might get married. We go away to college, and even if we go to the same college as our close friends, we take different classes, have different majors, and we can't talk to our best friend every minute. And, you know what? It's okay. Not being in touch every minute or having your lives intertwined doesn't hurt a real friendship. A real friendship can withstand changes. And, whether we want to our not, as we get older, our relationships with friends are gong to change, and mostly it's okay. Part of growing up is being a whole person and being able to be content not being with someone else every minute. Even when you're in love with someone and get married, after the honeymoon you don't spend every minute together, and it's okay.

And, one thing I have also found from experience is that when circumstances have caused me to not be able to be in constant touch with a very close friend, it didn't hurt the friendship. With a REAL friend, you may not see them for a year or two, but when you do see them, you simply take up where you left off.

As others have said, relgious communities are different in how much contact professed Sisters are able to have with the outside world. So, part of discernment would be finding out the community's rules about this. Unlike some others here, I have not been in religious life, but from what I have read, most communities do have some limitation on outside contact during the years of formation. However, again, the specifics of the rules differ from community to community. One of the goals of religious life is learning to depend on Christ and your Sisters, as they become your family. One of the ways this happens is to take away for a time some of the things you did in the past, so that you have to depend on Christ and your new Sisters.

As for feeling frustrated at the freedom priests seem to have versus what some religious Sisters/nuns have, remember, as others have said, that in many communities the stricter rules only apply to the first few years of formation, and are not as strict for professed Sisters. When you look at priests, you are looking at men who are already "professed" as it were. But, these men are priests after spending years in seminary. And, if you look at the rules of various seminaries, most of them have at least some limitations on how much contact seminarians can have with the outside world, and depending on the seminary, the rules that apply in the first few years could well be just as strict as those for religious Sisters.

It would NOT be a good reason to go into religious life just because you are scared or repulsed by the idea of sex and pregnancy. Many young women don't find the idea of sex attractive as a concept, but as one poster said, when you find the right man, ideally your feelings will change. When you are with a man with whom you have vowed to share your whole life, yes, sex is very private and personal, but it also increases your bond, because you are sharing your whole self with him. And, it isn't humiliating--it's fun, and makes you feel very loved.

One VERY strong word of warning: If you find yourself loving someone so much that you want to marry him and share your life with him, but the idea of sex with him is still repulsive, even after you have had some physical contact with him, get counseling, and DON'T MARRY HIM if you still feel repulsed by sex. A man deserves a wife who loves him in every way, including sexually, or your marriage will suffer. My background is no secret on Phatmass. I am divorced because my ex-husband decided he wanted to lead a homosexual lifestyle. I had NO idea and was totally devasted, especially since we'd been married 13 years. And, even worse, I found out later that my ex was having second thoughts even before we were married, but never told me. The first time my ex and I had sex, his response was, "Is that it?" There may be some women who take time to get used to sex (although they are not repulsed--and they WANT to enjoy it more), that is not the reaction of a truly heterosexual male. The reaction of a man to having sex for the first time is normally very positive (to put it mildly). But, I was too sexually naive to know this. If he had been honest, my ex and I would never have married, or my ex and I could have separated and divorced after only a short time being married, and it would have caused less damage. That is why I'm so adamant about this.

As I understand it, most women in religious life find men attractive, but they have found a man (Christ) who is the only one they want to marry. They are not running away from sex but toward Christ.

As for pregnancy, again, I don't have children (a long, very personal story that I won't share, but the bottom line is that I couldn't). But, although many women are apprehensive about pregnancy, most married women are excited to have children. After all, they will be bringing into the world a new life that springs from the very special love they share with their husband. However, there is a big difference between apprehension, and fear or the feeling that being pregnant is humiliating. (If you have a health issue that could make pregnancy dangerous for you, this is something for you and your future husband, should you have one, need to talk about BEFORE you get married.) My friends have had various experiences with pregnancy--it was easy for some, difficult for others--but virtually universally they forgot about the pain (or decided it was well worth it) to have this child that represents the bond they share with their husband. And, you won't go through pregnancy alone. If your husband knows your apprehensions, he can help you with them. You might want to have a woman doctor. And, nowadays, there are so many options for delivery etc that weren't available before, that delivery is less dangerous and less painful than in past. If privacy is a concern, let your doctor know, and ask to have visitors to the birthing room be limited to as few as possible. (If it's a large teaching hospital, ask to have no medical students, interns, residents etc come by to check on you. Ask to have only women care for you, if possible.) Home birth is a possibility, although in a hospital, ways to help pain or deal with any problems are closer at hand. If necessary, get counseling. I have never heard anyone (well, except my mother, but that's another long story) say that they were sorry they had children.

I have not had children, although I have had female reproductive surgery, and have made MANY visits to OB/GYNs, and although I was very stressed by my first OB/GYN visit, I found over the years that it no longer bothers me at all. In fact, my OB/GYN has commented that it really helps her since I am so relaxed.

The single life is different from being married, but it certainly doesn't mean you don't have friends. You'll see in my posts that I am lonely, but I also am ill and virtually housebound, so my circumstances are FAR from normal. I also live 2,000 miles away from ALL my family, and for various reasons having to do with health insurance, I can't move back, although that will change in two years. But, overall, although I would prefer to be married (but haven't found the right person), the single life has LOTS of positive points. My time is my own, I answer to no one, and if I leave a piece of pie in the refrigerator to have for breakfast, it is still there in the morning. (Or it usually is--sometimes I wake up in the night with a craving for pie!) Although the transition from being married to being single was awful, once the worst was over, the truth is that most of the time I like being single, and it will have to be the right man for me to give it up. (It would have to be the right man in any case--I've learned my lesson.)

Single people have friends. And, I don't know whether you have family or not, but they usually have family. My sister was thoughtful enough to have two children who look like they could be mine and I ADORE them. In many ways they are the most important people in the world to me, even more than my parents and siblings. And, if you choose some kind of consecrated life, either as a consecrated virgin or as a lay associate of a religious Order, you will have LOTS of friends, and true sisters in religion.

I don't know the position of the Catholic church on this, but I have had women friends who found themselves unmarried at 40, but wanting a child, so adopted a child on their own, usually a hard-to-place child. You'll want to make sure you have good male friends so that the child will have "honorary fathers" as well as a mother. Adoption by two parents is better, but adoption by a single parent is better than being shunted between foster homes.

You are who you are. Let God help you to discern the life for you that isn't "the least bad of several bad alternatives," but the one that genuinely will make you happy. Obviously, you don't know yet. That's fine. Just keep listening to God. It's fine to rant--we all do, but if you find yourself consistently unhappy, get counseling. My ex is a clinical psychologist, and I strongly believe that if you find the right counselor for you, it can be extremely helpful. And, nowadays, it's not lying on a couch, or making a commitment for years (unless that is what you want).

I genuinely wish you the best. Some people who are older wish they were young again. Not me. Except for my body, health, and energy, you couldn't pay me to be 18 or 21 again. It's a wonderful time, but it's also a confusing time. The good news is that as time passes, you will get to know yourself better, you will feel more comfortable with who you are, and it usually becomes a little clearer what you want and what will make you (and God) happiest.

Keep posting. We'll all be praying for you, and will support you, whatever "vocation" God calls you to.

Edited July 30, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[MissScripture]

[quote name='ksterling' date='29 July 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1280425332' post='2149516']
Chiara:

You raise a number of different issues here - some of which I've given a great deal of thought to. You have a vocation to religious life or you don't. If you do, you will find that the rewards outweigh the sacrifices. If the converse is true - and I think that's what discernment is all about - you probably don't have a religious vocation and need to discern what other paths you are more inclined to follow. I have 2 sisters who are both married. One of my sisters is divorced and I was present in the delivery room when her son was born. Trust me, the last thing on her mind was a doctor seeing her "not looking her best." The reward of a healthy child brought great happiness to all of us (even in the midst of a messy divorce) and I can tell you for sure, my sister didn't give a fig that it was "undignified." I think you are worrying unnecessarily - neither of my sisters would have chosen not to have their children because of the unpleasant process of birth. As for having one a year, almost no one outside the Duggars does that. [b]I don't want to digress into birth control, but I do a lot of work in my parish and the largest family has 5 kids - most have 2 - so almost no one is following the church's rules on birth control.[/b]

As I have discerned a vocation to religious life, I, too have wondered whether I would be able to go through life not having a child of my own. I am lucky in that both my sisters have children so my mom, who is a widow, is not deprived of grandchildren. It would be much harder if I was an only child and my becoming a sister meant that she would have no grandchildren. So we are back to weighing the rewards vesus the sacrifice and whether you find the sacrifice is too difficult. For me, yes, I would have liked to have a baby of my own someday (although I have friends who would tell you that I'm not very maternal.) But I feel like God has called me to religious life and I must trust in him to give me the grace to persevere, even in the face of difficulties. If I can't then maybe I'm mistaken in my vocation. There are many beauties to religious life but I don't think anyone will tell you it's easy and on this particular subject I think it is very difficult. This is one reason why I am searching for a community with strong bonds of sisterhood and women my own age - we can help one another face this and other difficulties of life.

As to the freedom of priests - I kind of agree with you to a point. Priests in orders face the same difficulties as sisters. Diocesan priests face some of the same and more - they don't have the strongs bonds of community to sustain them. My SD has told me on several occasions that he sometimes regrets not having joined an order - he says his life is lonely. I have said on this forum that I worry about being treated like an adult. Here is where I think priests have more freedom, at least in formation. I understand that a postulant can't go calling her friends or emailing them every day. How can you discern a lifetime decision if you are constantly distracted? [b] But I think you should be able to receive letters and write to friends. This is an issue that has made me not consider the Nashville Dominicans.[/b]

If you truly are ashamed to have sex or go through childbirth, as you say, I think you have other issues you need to address before you can think about discernment. These are normal human activities given to us by God - no reason for shame. I don't mean to be critical - I just want you to find the path that's right for you and to address the roadblocks that seem to prevent you from doing that. Good luck - I will be praying for you.
[/quote]
I don't mean to get off topic, but I really felt the need to comment on that first bolded statement: Just because people aren't having as many kids as the Duggars does not mean they are not following the Church's rules on birth control. There are acceptable methods (Natural Family planning) to space children...

More on topic, the second bolded statements: I don't know why you think the Nashville Dominicans don't recieve and write letters, because they do...They are more limited in communication with friends than family, but they can still write and recieve mail from both (provided the friends aren't single males).

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='StColette' date='29 July 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1280428047' post='2149544']
Not really sure what is humiliating about having children, I’ve had 2 and never felt humiliated.

As for the pain of labor, I don’t remember much of it and what I do remember wasn't that bad. My husband was hurting more than me as he had been pressing his fist into the small of my back for several hours lol

Sickness – this I remember clearly! I was very sick. With my first pregnancy I was in and out of the emergency room because I had a disorder called hyperemesis gravidarum, which pretty much means I threw up about 5 to 10 times a day and lost 10% or more of my body weight. And yes it was difficult and it definitely tried my patience, but my child was worth all of it. When I got pregnant with my second child only 3 ½ months after the first was born everyone kept asking me “I don’t know how you can put yourself through that again” or “Didn’t you learn from the first time”. They failed to understand that God had called me to be a mother and that He had created the child that was within. And I was just as sick with the second as I was with the first. But I would do it all again in a heartbeat.

There isn’t a whole lot that can compare to hearing your child’s heartbeat for the first time, feeling them kick, holding them in your arms, hearing them say “mama” for the first time, etc. It’s the very fact that God has given you such a precious gift that make all the difficult things with pregnancy and parenthood seem minuscule
[/quote]
Agreed. There really is no way to describe feeling those first kicks, hearing the heartbeat for the first time, feeling them having the hiccups (such a weird sensation). Or when their eyes light up when you come into view, when they give you a hug and a kiss, etc. I wasn't nearly as sick as you, just constantly nauseated with Charlotte. I'm a baby when it comes to nausea, I admit that, but every minute was worth it.

I suppose I can see how some would see the antenatal appts as embarrassing, depending on how they do things, but they don't have to be. And I honestly didn't care much once I was in active labour.

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='30 July 2010 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1280448860' post='2149702']
But, as others have said, over the years, things happen to our close friendships to change them. We get a boyfriend and want to spend time with him--and eventually we might get married. We go away to college, and even if we go to the same college as our close friends, we take different classes, have different majors, and we can't talk to our best friend every minute. And, you know what? It's okay. Not being in touch every minute or having your lives intertwined doesn't hurt a real friendship. A real friendship can withstand changes. And, whether we want to our not, as we get older, our relationships with friends are gong to change, and mostly it's okay. Part of growing up is being a whole person and being able to be content not being with someone else every minute. Even when you're in love with someone and get married, after the honeymoon you don't spend every minute together, and it's okay.

And, one thing I have also found from experience is that when circumstances have caused me to not be able to be in constant touch with a very close friend, it didn't hurt the friendship. With a REAL friend, you may not see them for a year or two, but when you do see them, you simply take up where you left off.
[/quote]
You worded that really well. My best friend and I did go to the same college, and were even roommates for a year and a half. Being roommates freshman year actually hurt our friendship. The next year was spent with me studying abroad the first semester, and her the second semester, so we only saw each other briefly over Christmas break, and yet our friendship became stronger. Now we see each other maybe one day a year, if that (it's been over a year since I've seen her, and I won't get to see her again for at least a year, it looks like), but our friendship is still really strong. We email weekly, and we talked on the phone a little a couple of months ago when a mutual friend of ours died. But we don't have to be in constant contact in order to maintain our friendship.

[quote name='MissScripture' date='30 July 2010 - 01:37 AM' timestamp='1280450265' post='2149706']
I don't mean to get off topic, but I really felt the need to comment on that first bolded statement: Just because people aren't having as many kids as the Duggars does not mean they are not following the Church's rules on birth control. There are acceptable methods (Natural Family planning) to space children...
[/quote]
Exactly

[krissylou]

And, as other people have said, different communities are really different.

The Poor Clares (OSC) in my neighborhood have this on their website:

"They say once you go through that door your family never sees you again. Is that true?" Sounds like you've been taken in by Hollywood's weird versions of life in a monastery. The custom here is a family visit each month for the first year. Not bad, huh? From then on, visits are something like every three months, with a birthday and Christmas visit thrown in. Furthermore, no one who comes to see you is ever turned away. Bonds with our loved ones tend to become even closer than when we were with them, and our visits are happily anticipated reunions. Nuns need the nurturing love of their families, too.

http://www.stanthonyshrine.org/PoorClares/cloister_grill.html

[Sarah147]

Wow. You've been getting some fantastic responses in this thread.

You are reading St John of the Cross' Dark Night? That is heavy, advanced stuff and reading stuff that is way ahead of a person can really mess with them. You really need a good spiritual director and it would be great to read simpler works, like the life of St. Therese, especially good books of God's love, etc.

I think a lot of what you are going through shows you need to grow in maturity and in your relationship with God. You will come to see everything in a deeper, beautiful way as you grow. You will desire sacrifice for how it brings you closer to Jesus. When you grow in love with Jesus, lonliness won't be such an issue and you will want more private time and silence with Him. And as you grow closer and hear Him better, you will be better able to discern what state in life you are called to.

Things won't happen overnight, and you don't have to rush. Just focus on growing closer with Jesus, and more abandoned to Him in little everyday things.

I know personally the pain of being away from loved ones, particularly my best friend whom I see everyday. This is a tough area for me and I wish I could take her with me to the convent, heh. This is something I'm praying about, praying for the strength to make the move when the day comes when I'm grown enough and ready to make that transition. I have learned that it is getting easier. And when I was trying out an order for months, away from her, even from the phone and letters, I came to grow very close to the Sisters, and there is love between the Sisters. So you become friends with those in your community. But even in community, you have to work on detachment from people and things, and God has to take first place in your heart.

Praying for you.

[Maggyie]

Slightly, slightly off topic.

I hope what I'm going to say isn't considered "inappropriate" or scandalous.

But I think regardless of where God calls you, prior to accepting that call it would be a good idea to get a better handle on your sexuality. While everyone approaches first-time sex with a little bit of anxiety (only natural) it's not healthy emotionally or theologically to be so afraid of it that it affects your vocational discernment. What you said about giving birth being humiliating (having doctors look at you down there) suggests that maybe you're not too comfortable with your reproductive organs, how they look, and how they function. You're not alone - many young women who are brought up to be holy and pure unintentionally absorb negative or fearful messages about their bodies. "Down there" becomes intimidating, or even repulsive. The fear and anxiety surrounding the organs and sex itself often leads to a painful condition called vaginismus, where sexual activity itself becomes painful or impossible (the woman is convinced, consciously or subconsciously, that it will be painful, so her pelvic floor muscles contract, and in a self-fulfilling prophecy, it's painful, when really it shouldn't be). Luckily this condition can usually be cured.

Of course I'm sure you know that every part of your body was made and formed by God and all of it is beautiful and none of it is shameful. Maybe this is a bit too explicit, I trust it will be edited if neccesary, but I would suggest either going to visit an OBGYN if you haven't already (women should start going regardless of sexual activity at age 21) and discuss how you feel about sex and pregnancy with them. It's hard because there aren't too many doctors who have a Catholic attitude about sex. But if he/she is a good doctor, they will be respectful of your faith and your choices. They may suggest the use of a hand mirror at home, or refer you to another doctor who could help you develop really good feelings about how God made your body and how it's designed to work. You do NOT have to have an exam if you don't want to.

<----- End slightly off topic, blush-worthy post! I hope I haven't offended anybody, I just felt like I had to speak up!!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[Quote name='Maggie' date='30 July 2010 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1280523494' post='2149995']
Slightly, slightly off topic.

I hope what I'm going to say isn't considered "inappropriate" or scandalous.

<----- End slightly off topic, blush-worthy post! I hope I haven't offended anybody, I just felt like I had to speak up!!
[/quote]

Maggie that was a great post! You finally came out and said what a couple of us were "suggesting." It was not off-topic AT ALL!

There is nothing offensive about the human body. God made us, and to do anything other than to appreciate, and yes, enjoy! his work is to suggest that God made a mistake. But, as you said, it's sometimes difficult to both try to be holy and pure AND accept that our body is beautiful, and that every part of the birth process--from conception, to pregnancy, to delivery--was created by God. And, those who choose the religious life do not do so to avoid this process, and in fact, usually go through times of mourning that they will not become a mother.

Thank-you for your courage.

[Hilde]

Thank you Maggie! Well if it's inappropriate I think we need some kind of forum for talking about that kind of stuff, because I think many people need it.